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TOPIC: 1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod

Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #87748

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My new friend vtflatlander just dropped by for a visit today. we got to talk "Boats" for a couple of hours. Thanks for a great visit and shared wisdom!
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #87829

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The deck installation continues....


My three helpers!





Pressing thinner bottom bilge piece into the PL Premium.

Test fitting bilge parts

Test fitting bilge parts

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #88010

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I took out the bilge pieces and waterproofed the edges and back sides. cut out the bilge opening, and re-assembled.











Notice I used the original engine mount locations to hold the deck in place till the PL Premium sets up. I used stainless steel screws and glue everywhere and married each deck piece together for strength.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #88321

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Cleaned the deck and started filling the gaps around the perimeter with PB and making filets.











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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #88397

Your welcome Andy but the pleasure was all mine. Thanks for all the good information too. I might get over one more time before I go back to VT
Fred

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 3 months ago #88537

Hi Andy I went to see Jim Forrester the guy with the boats I told you about. I did see one in the bushes that the hull looked similar to yours. Not sure if it is one and forgot to ask him about it. I did score a Hard Top and the windshield framework off him for my Funliner 17. He is not always open kind of retired but you will not believe the boats he has in the woods and brush.
Fred

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88855

I love your resto mod, looking great. Looks like if not already that you will be fitting up the 327 and outdrive. Do you plan on any improvements to the motor or going stock? I just love the looks of your boat, keep up the good work. In my part of town theres no work on the glassic going on, been the worst winter that i can remember. My job the colder it is the more work to do, so at least when the weather breaks my boat fund will be all stocked up. Cant wait, have fun with the build.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88856

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bc buehler wrote:

I love your resto mod, looking great. Looks like if not already that you will be fitting up the 327 and outdrive. Do you plan on any improvements to the motor or going stock? I just love the looks of your boat, keep up the good work.


The 327 is a stock 275HP from a 1963 Impala SS I owned 10 years ago. It ran when I removed it from the car but I will give it a complete rebuild and add a hotter cam to it.

Thanks so much for the kind words and keep checking in for more updates.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88857

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The work continues. These are photos of the fileting. I mixed up PB and used a big spoon (Don't tell Rosie!) apply it around all the edges and corners that are going to get glassed in. I filled all the gaps between the wood and hull also.













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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88985

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Nice job and an unbelievable amount of work. There was a nice original one at the local boat show last year.

You may have gone to far now for to actually do this suggestion, since it would require changes to the transom and motor stringers, but anyways. If this was my project, and don't get me wrong I like non mainstream power, I would pass that engine on to someone doing a car, or a boat resto, and since this is a restomod. Hunt up a donor boat, a late ish model, with a 4.3 GM and a Mercruser I/O. Paint it white and say nothing. Cheap (ish) parts and service everywhere. You do save considerable weight, over a V8, and it has a bunch more hp even stock. After all the storms in NJ and NY there should be a big supply.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88988

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l98tpi wrote:

Nice job and an unbelievable amount of work. There was a nice original one at the local boat show last year.

You may have gone to far now for to actually do this suggestion, since it would require changes to the transom and motor stringers, but anyways. If this was my project, and don't get me wrong I like non mainstream power, I would pass that engine on to someone doing a car, or a boat resto, and since this is a restomod. Hunt up a donor boat, a late ish model, with a 4.3 GM and a Mercruser I/O. Paint it white and say nothing. Cheap (ish) parts and service everywhere. You do save considerable weight, over a V8, and it has a bunch more hp even stock. After all the storms in NJ and NY there should be a big supply.


Believe me, I thought about it but the deal on the 800 series came along first. I was thinking how cool it would be to have that 60's hotrod Chevy look and sound in my 1964 Deluxe. I'm going to incorporate the old cross flag emblems in the boat too.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #88993

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Well if you put a set of these on the 327, you will have the weight of a V6 and it will make big power with out a huge cam and spinning the hell out of it. The best of the old iron (and aluminum) heads are awful compared to the new designs. Note the heart shaped chambers. You will need a mechanical advance distributor also.

But truth is a Mercruser chevy 350 say the 260 hp version is a generation of improvement over the older small blocks.

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Boats: 76 Chrysler Conqueror S3, 61 Larson Playmate. Outboards: 76 Chrysler 105, 70 Chrysler 70, 57 Evinrude Bigtwin 35, 80 Johnson 35 looper, 74 Chrysler 45, 67 Mercury 650SS, and others.

Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89012

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No doubt about the improvement over the older engines and drives and honestly if I had a complete engine and drive like your suggesting I back up and go that route. unfortunately, finances dictate using what I have already committed too for now. Who knows what the future holds as this Deluxe will never be "finished" in my eyes. I'm sure continuous improvement will be in the future...
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89013

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Tabbed the new deck with 2 layers of cloth, the first 4 inches wide and the second 6 inches wide. I put CSM over all the seams in the deck also.

Note: I sanded all the filets and seams prior to this.















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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89126

Andrew, you are kicking some serious but there!!! Looking great and professional, beautiful work. I have to dis agree with the 4.3 v-6 knowing that its a fully capable motor, just the sound of the v-8 makes the difference. Sure weight and fuel consumption play into alot of areas when powering a boat among availability, etc. Can't beat a 327 in your mod!! You can also source out some aluminum exaust logs to save weight, if you dont already have a pair. A nice custom grind hydraulic roller cam down the road, with a nice air gap aluminum intake, aluminum heads, stand alone fuel injection, you get the point.LOL, She looks like shes coming along nicely for ya, keep up the good work and best of luck! Brian , p.s. no disrespect to the gentleman suggesting the v-6 and outdrive.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89141

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If you add up all the parts to marine-ize that 327 lump I bet you will be a long ways toward a running pull out Merc sbc 350 260hp. Or the OMC 350 SBC based equivalent. Another possibility is find a boat with a blown SBC for a song and swap the I/O and your long block, over. Assuming you use the more generic thru transom exhaust, logs, traps and thru hulls,(rumble and roar baby!) you can block off plate the through I/O exhaust. If you use the I/O exhaust then you have to track down all the 800 drive/SBC specific parts to hook it up. Just trying to give some cheap ideas to get this thing running. If the 800 came with all the SBC parts then you are golden. But still parts for that one are NLA or $$$.

Psst... those aluminum heads are worth 100hp over the best iron factory heads. And now a days they are only about twice the price of a rebuild on a pair of iron castings. A lot of cheap power.

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Boats: 76 Chrysler Conqueror S3, 61 Larson Playmate. Outboards: 76 Chrysler 105, 70 Chrysler 70, 57 Evinrude Bigtwin 35, 80 Johnson 35 looper, 74 Chrysler 45, 67 Mercury 650SS, and others.

Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89161

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Boats without engines can get damned expensive to re-power. I have a system...

I buy "dead" boats with Mercruiser engines/outdrives that are shot, generally due to non-winterizing. I seem to get them for somewhere between $300 and $600. By doing so, I also get every single bolt-on piece I'll need...motor mounts, brackets, oil pan, timing cover, fittings, etc., not to mention the complete outdrive...and a free trailer, which I generally sell for around $300! In some cases, the whole boat ends up being free.

Then I buy a long block. The last one I received was a 351W Ford, 10.3:1 compression, 375 HP for $1,850, shipping included. To that, we added an Edelbrock Performer intake, Edelbrock #1410 750 CFM marine carb, finned "Cobra" aluminum valve covers and a Pertronix marine distributor. (He wouldn't spring for the aluminum heads.) We'll paint her 1976 CJ5 Baby Blue. Anyway, this approach allows you to re-power cheap...or at least a lot cheaper than buying everything piecemeal.

If you're going to buy aluminum heads, buy a pair of Edelbrock E-series for about $1,100. They weigh 19 lbs each and have 2.10 intake valves.

Power is where it's at. "Walk softly and carry a big stick." Cruising is fine but when a man wants to move, you've got what it takes.

Death to jet skis!

Jan

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89241

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Thanks for all the kind words and advice concerning my project. I swear I have made all the mistakes possible on this thing. If I ever do another boat I will do a lot different. Purchasing a junk boat to acquire the engine and drive of my choosing is definitely the way to go. My big problem here is room to store it while dismantling it, and contending with Rosie about "another pile of junk" in the yard!:blink:

and with every project like this, the ugly "BUDGET" word keeps coming up. If I had the $$$ to just throw to the wind I would go aluminum heads, intake, and exhaust. But alas, I don't. So I will doing an intake at best for now and cast iron on everything else. Don't worry, I believe a 300HP 327 in a 17 foot boat can handle the extra weight.:)

As far as the 800 series OMC stringer, it looks like a solid drive, but requires more preventative maintenance and isn't as fool proof as the Mercruser's. As we all know, operator error and neglect has killed more engines and drives than bad craftsmanship.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89243

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Time for some floatation foam. If you remember I removed half a ton of wet foam from this old girl. Well, that foam needs to be replaced for several reasons:
Floatation
Strength
Sound deadening

Everyone seems to have an opinion about how, when, and why concerning floatation foam. This is the way I choose to do it, whether it was right or wrong.


This is half of what I ended up using. It took 7 mixed gallons total.

Getting ready for mixing. I mixed 1 quart of each together at a time. Your mixing time varies depending on the temperature.

This is the hard part... boring holes in the deck I worked so hard on.

Keep these wood pucks for later!

I bored a total of 27 holes in the deck, plus a lot of small 1/2 inch holes around the perimeter to let air escape.

You can see the foam expanding...

I placed a board over the hole with a weight on it to prevent the foam from just coming out the hole I poured it into.



Its messy work and you can see it wants to stick to everything it touches.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89244

looks like a good foaming. well done

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89245

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jbcurt00 wrote:

looks like a good foaming. well done


Thanks for the kind words, please keep checking in there is more to come.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89249

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Andrew, I have found that using your system leaves several voids beneath the plywood...some a lot bigger than you might think. That's why I do the "overfill and trim" method before I lay the plywood. It probably wouldn't hurt to do a little "hammer tap testing" to see if you can find them...or most of them. They can be filled by simply drilling additional holes.

I sent you an email though this site. Did you get it?

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89257

Andy looks great I'm glad you took so many pictures and thanks for posting.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89259

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Nautilus wrote:

Andrew, I have found that using your system leaves several voids beneath the plywood...some a lot bigger than you might think. That's why I do the "overfill and trim" method before I lay the plywood. It probably wouldn't hurt to do a little "hammer tap testing" to see if you can find them...or most of them. They can be filled by simply drilling additional holes.

I sent you an email though this site. Did you get it?


Hey Jan, I found your email! Sorry I overlooked it.
I know I have a few voids but they are small. The deck and hull got warm all over when it was curing. I figured the amount I poured in took care of about 95% of the volume.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89260

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vtflatlander wrote:

Andy looks great I'm glad you took so many pictures and thanks for posting.


Hey there Fred! When are you coming back for another visit?

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89289

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That is exactly the technique Chrysler used to foam the bottom of my S3. It has a grid of 1-1/2" holes. But no little holes for indicators, which is a good idea. They did have an advantage over us re-builders. They know exactly how much foam to use, being able to measure it before production starts. And they are likely injecting it with a gun so they can fill continuously till it runs out. And I bet the operator has filled hundreds if not thousands of the same type.

So what to you do when rebuilding and upgrading? Do you put it back the way the BIA required back in the day, mostly under the floor foam and call it good? Or do you upgrade and foam under the gunnels, and add foamed floatation tanks to the stern?

Foam in the bottom is great, it will keep even a large breach from sinking the boat immediately. But and its a big but, if there is not enough foam up high and you get swamped, the boat will capsize. If the foam is not distributed correctly you could go pointy end up like an iceberg. :)

Hey agleason how far are you along at this point I am guessing and I think you mentioned you are posting pics in catchup mode. :)

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89300

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Right now the Deluxe is upside down and I'm doing an endless amount of body work to the hull. The topside is repaired and in primer. The 800 is completely rebuilt and awaiting installation. The engine is on the stand and I will start rebuilding it after the bottom is painted and flipped back over.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89421

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Time to plug all those holes in the deck and get ready for glassing the entire deck in.


I cleaned all the excess foam and opened the holes up a little so the plug would set in the opening.

Thickened resin ready to apply.

Wiped the deck with acetone and applied the PB to the plug.

All glued in.

I will sand these flat before glassing the deck.

After some sanding.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89458

Great job Andy
And thanks for your time and information. I had another great visit. Will keep watching from Vermont. I am sure I will have plenty of questions for you once I get started on the Funliner. Hopefully we can get together again next year.
Fred

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89466

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vtflatlander wrote:

Great job Andy
And thanks for your time and information. I had another great visit. Will keep watching from Vermont. I am sure I will have plenty of questions for you once I get started on the Funliner. Hopefully we can get together again next year.
Fred


I was great to have you by again. If its a year before you get back we will be able to sit in the boat and pretend to ride around the lake! haha

I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of the Funliner!

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89482

Okay its a date I will keep you posted

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89644

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Now I remember where I saw one of these before. Here is a Johnson for sale up in Idaho. kalispell.craigslist.org/boa/4299251197.html

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89653

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SteveH wrote:

Now I remember where I saw one of these before. Here is a Johnson for sale up in Idaho. kalispell.craigslist.org/boa/4299251197.html


Hey Steve, thanks for sharing another Johnson boat. Keep checking in and posting. When will you be able to start your new project?

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89661

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As soon as school gets out June 5th I'm off for the summer and headed North. Then the fun work begins. Not sure I'll get as deep as what you're doing though.
Good Job!
Steve

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89702

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Sanded the deck, vacuumed, and wiped with acetone.















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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89721

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I laid down 2 layers of CSM overlapping 50% from back to front.
Saturated with polyester resin rolling the opposite direction, from front to back and out to the sides removing the air pockets.













Now I have something to work with! I wasn't sure I could save this old Deluxe. She was sooo bad and rotten. Until I could get a deck in her I just wasn't sure of anything.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89758

Very Nice! Can't wait to see this one completed.

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89780

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Glastrontransam wrote:

Very Nice! Can't wait to see this one completed.


Me too, the body work has been ENDLESS

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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89810

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agleason wrote:

Me too, the body work has been ENDLESS

Hang in there Andrew, you've almost got the worst of it behind you now! In the end you'll have something you can really be proud of, IMHO. ;)

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Mark

Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 4 years 2 months ago #89852

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Thanks for the encouragement. I'm getting closer to painting the bottom half. I ran out of primer this weekend so I have an excuse to take a break until another gallon arrives.

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