1946 16' Old Town Canoe

1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64155

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Before I get too far into this project, does it make sense to strip the interior and re-do that first? Or should that be done last? Thanks for any advice. This is gonna be one heck of a project for a wood boat newbie! Frank Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64160

thompsonboat Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 1418 Karma: 188 Thank you received: 19	I highly recommend you ask questions about your wood/canvas canoe at the forums of www.wcha.org You can also get the original build record for the old Town which will give you the year, model, colour of the paint, when she was shipped and to where she was shipped. Andreas Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64168

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks for the link Andreas, that is great! You mean this build sheet? I'm probably not gonna repaint it aluminum. Heck, that assumes I can figure out how to get it canvassed! Frank Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64172

thompsonboat Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 1418 Karma: 188 Thank you received: 19	Yes sir. But lotsa good advice on the forums at www.wcha.org about the how to of restoraing a wood canvas canoe. Andreas Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64198

Doug Reeve Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 248 Karma: 13 Thank you received: 32	The Wood and Canvas Canoe by Jerry Stemok and Rollin Thulow is a great book that tells you just about everything you need to know. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64203

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And wouldn't you know it - I have that book! I've had this canoe for more than two decades and many years ago acquired not only that book, but some good reprints from articles that the wcha put out. I am finally getting around to doing something with this canoe. It's time has come.

I emailed Old Town today about parts (the last parts list I had was effective 1990), and hope tyo hear from them soon. Whether or not I do is academic, a as I plan to start stripping the interior soon.

Thanks for the tip on the book. It is a great book.

Frank

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64206

Doug Reeve Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 248 Karma: 13 Thank you received: 32	I'm not sure Old Town carries much in the way of spare parts for these canoes. I very well may be wrong about that tho. They only sell wood canoes by special order and if I'm not mistaken I believe Jerry Stelmok custom builds each one for Old Town these days. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64216

littlefin Offline Contributing Member Posts: 397 Karma: 14 Thank you received: 0	PC, It looks to be a great project. I know those canoes are still highly prized up here in Northern Minnesota. They still use them in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. It will be a lot of work but well worth it in the end. Thanks for saving the old girl, there aren't many left. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64223

Doug Reeve Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 248 Karma: 13 Thank you received: 32	Here is the build card for my 1922 OldTown. Unfortunately I've never gotten around to finishing the restoration I started about 10 years ago in Rollin Thurlow's Canoe restoration and repair class at the Woodenboat School in Maine. Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64233

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Boy, isn't that cool. Now all we both need to do is get going on our vintage Old Towns! I hope to maybe start this weekend. Best of luck! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64250

jepstr67 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 649 Karma: 13 Thank you received: 1	I'll post some photos of my dad's 1918 St.Louis when I get to the lake next time. (just for inspiration) Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64254

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Cool. I need inspiration! Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re: 1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64511

satx78247 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 2688 Karma: 66 Thank you received: 3	PC1000, WOODEN BOAT magazine published a series of detailed articles, a few years ago, on restoring wood/canvas canoes, which have MANY pictures to properly do the job. - "WB" is archived on "the worldwidewierd" on www.woodenboat.com BEST WISHES, satx Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
	Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation. Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God. Thomas Jefferson, 1803

Re: 1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64512

satx78247 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 2688 Karma: 66 Thank you received: 3	PC1000, WOODEN BOAT magazine published a series of detailed articles, a few years ago, on restoring wood/canvas canoes, which have MANY pictures to properly do the job. - "WB" is archived on "the worldwidewierd" on www.woodenboat.com BEST WISHES, satx Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
	Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation. Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God. Thomas Jefferson, 1803

Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64641

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	worldwideweird is right. Darned if I can find the issues you refer to. anybody have any idea when issues this stuff would be in? Thanks! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64662

Shelby18 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 436 Karma: 18 Thank you received: 0	Here's my 1945 Yankee. Good luck with your project! Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64675

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Sorry I just was reading back on the post. I see you already have this info.

Frank I just read this it might help out.

How do I make repairs on my old wood/canvas Old Town canoe?
Feel free to call us at (207) 827-5514 or (800) 343-1555 for our free 12 page wood/canvas canoe repair brochure, or use our online contact form. Another excellent reference is "The Wood & Canvas Canoe" by Jerry Stelmok and Rollin Thurlow. Old Town wooden canoe parts, hardware and supplies for restoration or repair can be found at Island Falls Canoe.

Here's a link to the FAQ page at Old Town.

www.oldtowncanoe.com/product_support/faqs.html

And here's the book they are talking about:

www.amazon.com/The-Wood-Canvas-Canoe-Construction/dp/0884480461

Hope this helps.

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1963 Starcraft 14' Ranger

Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64701

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	littlefin, I have both the book and the reprint you mention, thanks! Shelby, what a great looking boat, pretty slick! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64746

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Frank, it looks like you are about to learn the fine art of how to canvas a canoe. It is allot of fun and really isn't as hard as it looks. Back home we had a local park there that rented out these canoes and my dad was the only person around that could work on them. I learned how to repair these things at a very young age and found out one nice thing about them, they don't sink. Well have fun rebuilding it. Skip.

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 4 months ago #64823

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Thanks Skip, can't wait to get going on it, but also need to get my 1350 rebuilt.

I've been wondering if anyone here has made a kevlar canoe. I sure can't afford to buy one, but I wonder how much it would cost to build one? I understand the cost of the buck would be costly if you're just making one. Maybe I'd make two...

Frank

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Scarfing planks? 13 years 3 months ago #65839

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I've got cracks in a couple planks (canoe length planks) from where a tree came through my garage and attacked this canoe stored in the rafters back in the ice storm of January '98. The canoe didn't get hurt as badly as my garage, but the cracks seen here are outside the canoe right where there is that broken rib. It's amazing really it did not get damaged worse.

So now I have a couple questions. First, my build sheet says the planks are spruce, but weren't they mostly (always?) cedar? I've emailed a few folks who would know, and posted the same question over on the WCHA, but am not getting any responses.

Secondly, can I scarf in replacement plank pieces here? I hope so, as getting a couple canoe lengths of whatever this wood is would be tough.

Thanks for any help!

Frank

Overview of cracks

Crack from the front

Crack from the rear

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #65859

Shelby18 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 436 Karma: 18 Thank you received: 0	Try this guy Scott Barkdoll he restored my Old Town. Tell him I sent you, and am still loving my canoe. Here is his email address: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. And here is his website www.skywoodscanoes.com/ All the best... Rick Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #65862

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks Rick, I sure do appreciate the lead. I can't afford to hire this job out, so need to learn some new tricks. I hate to bug guys who are trying to make a dollar, but you never know... Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #65906

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Here's where I got last night. Sure looks like spruce planking to me! As you can see, I could not get all the screws out of the outwale. I think this whole ash outwale will be replaced. This stern deck looks like white oak. More to come! Frank Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66051

Chuck in Cincinnati Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 973 Karma: 46 Thank you received: 46	Here is a way I learned to scarf planks. Hope this jpg attaches Have to resize it... I'll try again later Thanks for resizing it Frank ! I learned this from a guy who was scarfing lap strakes for his Lyman. It's a crude sketch, but get's the point across.... I hope ? Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66054

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Chuck, I'll be scarfin to beat the band! Ribs too. Stems for sure. You could always email me a "big" jpg. frank dot alguire at gmail dot com. Thanks! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66147

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Made canoe cradles today, plus a couple heavy duty nesting sawhorses for other projects. Fixed up some old broken down sawhorses too! Frank Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66153

Waterwings Offline Contributing Member Posts: 4896 Karma: 107 Thank you received: 100	Nice, now that is all going to be real handy Frank. Bob Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66370

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So working between my new cradles and old newly-stabilized sawhorses, I removed both bands, removed pieces of the mostly disintegrated keel and both outwales. Going was tough because this canoe had been fiberglassed 40 years ago. All the screw slots were full of resin and there were staples holding the 'glass on. One outwale broke in the middle at an existing split when it came off, and the other is not in very good shape. A number of my ribs are bad where they meet the gunnel. All the fiberglass is now off, except for one side that will get done later. Dinner called and then the mosquitoes came out. Took a couple of planks off too. Saved all the hardware I could, and all of the keel screws & little cupped washers. Lot of work here, but I'm taking it one step at a time and am not in a rush.

Can anyone tell me what end is the bow? Would it be the end with the thwart close (couple feet maybe) or far away (like maybe 4')? Both ends have the hull # in the stem.

Thanks for all the help and advice folks. I sure do appreciate it!

Frank

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66375

Shelby18 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 436 Karma: 18 Thank you received: 0	Here is a link to a total restoration like yours. Tons of information, including the question you just asked. He is not in the business. www.woodshed.steveambrose.net/18-old-town-guide-restoration/ Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66385

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks Shelby, great link! I wish I had more time in a row to work on this baby, more $ and more tools! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66403

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Got the last of the fiberglass and/or canvas off this morning before work, along with all the staples that held it on under the outwales. Next is a good soap & water wash, then on to plank removal for rib scarfing and some plank replacement. Got a buddy here at work who has a radial arm saw and has volunteered to make cedar planks for me.

More to come!

Frank

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66407

Shelby18 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 436 Karma: 18 Thank you received: 0	Frank, Glad to help. I'm sure you canoe will be perfect once completed. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66416

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks! Thought I had something else going on tonight, but it got cancelled so back to work on the canoe after I make a run to NAPA for some stuff I need. First thing I'm doing is a good soap, water and brush wash of the interior. More pics soon! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66469

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Okay, here's where I'm at. I washed the interior last night with a big stiff brush and Murphy's wood soap. Still pulling a few staples as well as working on getting some planks out of the way for rib scarfing, and general plank replacement. Got a couple questions.

First - I can't find eastern white cedar around here anywhere except growing trees (I have a bunch on my property). Looks like about all that is available is western red cedar in bundles for siding ($130 for 10 of them 12' long), and 1 X dimensional stuff nominally 6" wide up to 12' long. Guess I could use either of them for planks and ribs?

Second - I have planks that look like they're pulling apart from the nails. See pics below. I need to replace those don't I?

A couple of the pics here show two cracked ribs inside and the cracks on the planks outside. This is from the ice storm of '98 up on the Canadian border in NY when a big tree came down through our garage roof and hit the canoe. I had built a storage rack for it up high enough so I could get under it without hitting my head. Really, the canoe didn't get too damaged. That gives you an idea of how long I've been carting this thing around too! We've moved three times since then.

Thanks again for all the help folks.

Frank

Washed

Splits

Ribs cracked inside

Outside cracked ribs plank damage

Plank removal with my helper...

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66474

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Frank check Stemples Saw Mill up on Sawmill RD in Berne they may have cedar there. I Found with bending Oak for a Sleigh I was working on ( Runners ) that that store baught Kiln dried wood doesnt bend well... But fresh cut or air dried would steam and bend just fine... I didnt do much and just fiddled with it. I would check some of the local saw mills for stock. they may even have some scraps of rejects that will do your job fine but cost alot less.

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66475

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Thanks Jesse, I will give that a try, but I don't think I need to bend much stuff. Most of the ribs I'll just scarf in new straight material on the top, and the few cracks I have I think I can remove the entire rib and scarf in sections.

What I would really like to find is some old cedar siding somebody doesn't want or removed to do something else. I'm gonna run out to home depot later this morning and see what they have.

Frank

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66478

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I happen to have an old barn up in knox that may have a decent cedar board or two I can pull off for you.. most were prety shot I will take a look when I go over tonight to check things out. I plan to strip that to the frame this fall and redo the building so I can spare a board or two. I just burnt a whole pile of it...

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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66480

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Boy, that would be great Jesse. Let me know. I think these planks are 3 3/4" wide and about 3/16 thick, but I can work with stuff bigger. Dimensional stuff at Home Depot is loaded with knots, not even worth looking at, especially at their prices! Thanks, Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:1946 16' Old Town Canoe 13 years 3 months ago #66497

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Stripped the top planks off one side tonight ("B" side) to get at the tops of the ribs. I think a lot of the tops need to have new material scarfed in. I have a good friend coming over maybe Sunday to help me with an inventory. He's done two of these kind of canoes, in much worse beginning condition. I'm labeling the ribs and planks as they come off.

Frank