TOPIC: Clamp swap - question

I got new clamps for my '63 Merc1000. I'm not sure what they came off, but they have meatier clamps with hex heads not handles.

My question is the new clamps do not have holes for the tilt lock.







Can I just do away with the tilt lock (I have PT&T), or do I need to drill the new clamps and install the old tilt lock? Because I have PT&T, I have never used the tilt lock thing.

Thanks!

Frank

with pt+t you can use a block of wood instead of the tilt lock if needed.

So what you're saying is I really don't need the tilt lock, and can just remove it and put my new clamps on right Dave? No drilling needed?

Thanks!

Frank

Remove the clamp? Think I could get this pin out that is the only thing holding it to the motor?





Then what? Heat wrench? Any other ideas?

I tried whacking at them some this a.m. and might have budged one or the other 1/8", but too much movement. I wonder if there is anyway to get them off without removing the entire unit from the motor?

Thanks for any help guys, I sure need it!

Frank

Frank on my 1250 I just unhooked the spring on the top side I may have had to use vise grips to bend it enough to pass but I was able to do the same on the new one and presto all was well and nothing bent just sprung back around the pin. I Had to take off the Tilt lock to make it work at all otherwise it was in the way of something... Dont remember what. but my 1250 had old white clamps and a tilt lock from them on it.. I originally was going to use that 140 merc clamp but could get none of the parts off so I baught others..

Hi Frank,
You do not need the tilt lock anymore, you can take all those parts off. I would save them in case in the future someone wants to make the motor original, just my opinion.
Regarding your clamps, You have one of the last year clamps before Merc switched to the bolt style. You are missing some parts. The cross tube that the tilt transom brackets attach to is missing.
The later brackets/cross tubes have grommets in the clamp bracket holes to provide the correct diameter for the tube. This tube is essential for correct mounting of the brackets as the brackets absorb thrust load when you are trimmed up. You need to get these parts or get an earlier transom clamp assembly that has this tube connecting the two clamps together AND has the long lower bolt that goes through both clamps and both tilt brackets. This stabilizes the whole assembly and maintains allignment.
All you do is swap over by undoing the tilt tube. This is important so the system isn't fighting itself. The hydraulic rams are understandably strong and will simply distort the pieces when trimming if all is not properly alligned, so it "works" but will be putting odd stresses on th eparts not indended. Don't mean ot scare ya but obviously you are doing this for added strength. I'd look for the parts or any clamp bracket up to about 74 for a big inline 4 or 6 would do it. That long bolt is shorter on non tilt bracket assemblies, keep the spacer tube between the clamps and just use a long threaded rod of correct length to pass through the clamps and brackets if needed.
I don't think I have pictures of what the correct assembly looks like but I'll look around for one to phot. Maybe someone here has a picture or the needed parts.
Randy

Thanks for the advice Randy, but boy, that is bad news. I guess I better re-assemble, as the engine hoist and motor are taking up my truck space in the garage, and with winter on it's way, that motor needs to go on its stand and hibernate in my heated basement so I can get the truck in the garage.

I'm not really following what you're telling me. I just need a cross tube and a special long bolt? Of do I need a complete assembly?

The cross tube I have won't do? Seems to me that's where the PT&T bracket mounts I have mount. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm at work and can't go look at it...

Boy, pictures would be REAL helpful. Part #s even more so. Guess I can't do this this fall, so no rush. I will give it a whirl in the spring.

Thanks for the help.

Frank

Frank it looked to me that you have all the parts as they are on your other set up? you just need to swap them all over I would think? I'm no expert but its the same as what I did on mine.. Havent used it but seems to be the same as yours was? Maybe he thinks your doing a whole new conversion not just changing the clamp portion of the set up.

Just my 2 cents... if you need any parts from the 140 your welcome to them but will likely needa tourch to cut them off lol that puppy is corroded as all hell...

When I put PT&T on Jesse, I followed Merc's directions for installing it on older motors. Part of that was having a long piece of threaded rod through the clamps. I of course needed to remove that before I took these pics. These clamps, other than no provision for the tilt lock, look to be exactly the same as my current ones, other than they're meatier, and they have those larger hex head turn screws.

Frank

I would think you would be good to just eliminate the tilt lock and reassemble with your new clamps provided you can get the old ones off the heavy bar that runs between them.

I am eliminating the tilt lock Jesse. I was able to swivel the clamps on that tube tonight, but my shoulders are screwed up again, left one bad enough I got a doc appointment Thursday. So maybe tomorrow if I feel up to it, the old mapp gas torch will come out, and we'll see if that pops it.

I'm rapidly getting to the point of being afraid to do anything for fear some part of my body is going out on me! Had a real bad episode with the left shoulder late yesterday afternoon, just as I was undoing the last screw to get the merc off. Not good.

Frank

Thats no good frank! If you need a hand ever give a call. or shoot me an E-Mail during the day.

Tell me about it! Thanks Jesse, I'll keep ya posted.

Frank

Hi Frank,
My intention was no to stress you out about the swap, only to make suer all the right parts and shims are installed so the system is alligned correctly. I couldn't get pics last night, I'll see if I can round up the needed stuff and click a few photos.
I'm not sure I understand why you are swapping only the clamps. It's the swivel bracket itself that was beefed up for PTT, not the clamps. You can see the forgings of the claps are near identical. different holes drilled. The swivel brackets got beefier around the tilt tube area and near the shock mounts in the back there is different ribbing. The Merc catalog I have from 67 advertises a conversion kit for the earlier motors that includes a swivel bracket when wanting to add T&T. Anywasy it's not hard to do the swap it's just getting the right parts. The large shim washers are often mixed up or not there plsu on the trim bracket there is a steel thin shim used on the limit switch side to pressure the tab against the switch button. It is most dangerous to run without the limit switch if you overtrim while under power the swivel bracket won't be overlapping the clamp bracket at the ears where the tilt pin holes are.
I know you've spent a lot of time on this and it's not easy if you cannot see what a correct instal looks like if you have bought just the parts and doing a conversion.
I'll see what i cna get for pics, my parts pile is not always easy to sift through.
Randy

New ones won't work, tube hole is 1.25, old tube is 0.987.

Hi Frank,
That is what I was explaining in my first reply to your thread. There are some gommets that go in the holes to bring the ID down. I'm gussing Merc did this to facilitate repair/assembly where the tube just slips in with the grommets as opposed to the elbow wrenching excersize you just went through. You cna find these parts if you look on ebay but it might take a while. Whole clamp swivel assemblies are easier to find. Look for 67 up to about 74. to be safe. I don't have t epart numbers for the parts you need ot make these clamps work. But I think it is the swivel bracket and not the clamps that need the upgrade to later components per Merc for the increased strength they designed in for the T&T.
Randy

Hi Guys I got some pics of mine and there are spacers as Randy said.
The Actual Bar seems to be the same size, Frank I will look at my other parts engines and see if I have any of those bushings they are all 68 to 72 parts but from 50 HP units.

Well now folks, I have an answer to my dilemma from good ole doc Frankenmerc! I understand now that these later clamps use the same size 'tube', but had black plastic-like bushings to fill in the difference in hole size. These bushings also have over-size shoulders on the outside ends of these bushings so that they would stay in place. Do any of you folks happen to have a couple bushings you don't need and would like to peddle, or if you don't, do you have a part #?

I hope to hit the local merc place (Coeymans Marina) after work today and see if they can help. The owner of the place (Jim) has been great for other vintage stuff related to my old merc. Anything I find out I will post here.

Thanks!

Frank

Frank. One and a half days ago Randy and Stash posted the exact same thing with pictures
Conrad

Frank if you cant get NOS bushings and all else fails we can turn Plastic or aluminum bushings for you as either should be a smap just need the materials to do it. Have a great day.

Frank,
I found one and stripped it off this morning.
I'm not too proud of the shaft itself (salty dog removal) but the bushings, etc would do the trick for you if you have a nice shaft.
Having said that - if you can remove your original shaft - it will work with these bushings.
Write direct if you are interested Frank.
As mentioned above in a post - that spring can usually be unhooked from that pin with a screw driver or two and then sprung back onto the replacement swivel housing, but I didn't think you needed to remove your swivel housing at all - correct? If so - the sping can stay where it is and the other end slid back onto the shock mounting shaft during re-assembly.
In that case - you would not use the rubber sleeve seen on my shaft - you would use (2) square shouldered rubber rings - but they aren't really necessary. They may quiet vibrations from the spring??
The spring or a safety strap need to be installed or the power trim will over-center and confuse the trim rams.

I'm sure there is someone that wants to know what I mean - so,...
If the trim rams are allowed to go clear to the end of their travel by tilting up the Merc too much they will often try and extend the cylinder a bit more when the 'down' button is pushed consequently trying to stall the ram to fully short and not be able to 'get over center of the arc' and stall until you push the 'up' to relieve the pressure, walk back and shove the Merc down a bit, and then go back up to the helm and begin to tilt down again.
The safety strap length or the spring restricts this form happening, as well as giving you one last safety hold on the swivel assembly (basically the entire Merc) if the swivel housing was to break during operation.

I know I'm drifting a bit here, but since we're somewhat on the subject:
The reasons that the swivel housing will break include salt corrosion that pushes the aluminum cast swivel housing outward where steel is internal - like the tilt tube, the shock mounting shaft (pin - not shaft - in the manual), and the steel shafts at the lower end of the shocks.
Also trimming up higher than the transom clamps' tilt pin arms while under way (like those knotheads that put up youtube videos of the hull straight up in the air going in circles, etc) or tilting up too much at a boat launch while on the trailer and revving the beast up in gear to do testing, etc.
Okay,...Back down off the Soap Box.

Thom

Doc, what year and hp did that shaft and bushings come off of?

Email on the way!

Frank

Thanks to Thom for getting me a part #. It's 23-89117, though the merc dealer here just used 89117. There are still a few around.

Frank