TOPIC: Advance? Or retard?

I'm baaaaaaaack......

As some of you will recall, I built a Pertronix Ignitor based ignition system for my 63 1000. Converts the stock dual breaker point system to a single electronic system using a modified OEM distributor. The short version is I took a vintage distributor pan, emptied it of points and condensers and mounting points, built up the distributor shaft to accept the magnetic ring, mounted the pickup, added a coil/plugs/wires to match the Pertronix system. Believe it or not it runs.

Last Year I put her away "running" but not water ready due to the symptoms described below. This weekend I pulled the boat out, hooked up the gas, pumped the ball, and she started on the first turn of the key. I only had 30 minutes or so that day, so didn't put a timing light or tach on it. Just needed a refresher that it was indeed starting.

The problem to overcome is I have yet to get the timing right, but think I am close (it runs after all)

What I think:
I have TDC identified correctly
I have correctly marked .222 and .015 BTDC (using both a dial gauge and a vintage mechanical gauge
I am using ethanol free gas (yay!)

The symptoms;
It will fire right off with the fast idle lever all the way up, but only runs at a little over idle speed (that is, runs at idle speed with the fast idle level all the way up)

Even warmed up, if I drop the fast idle lever, the rpm's drop to an immediate stall.

So.... Does this mean I need to Advance the timing Or retard it, such that it revs high with the lever up, and runs at idle speed with it down. I wanted that insight before I put timing light on it an get myself all confused, especially if the timing light says it's firing at .222 TDC

here are some teaser pics

Normally advancing the timing increases engine RPM if I'm not mistaken. Congrats on the project coming together Peter!

so this is going to be a silly question by most standards. By advancing the timing, we mean moving the firing point closer to TDC?

As maximum-advanced timing specs are given as degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center), more advance means the spark is firing sooner rather than later.

The maximum-advance setting you achieve by adjusting the Spark Stop will not affect idle-speed timing.

Sounds like perhaps you need to advance your belt timing one tooth (at least try that to begin with).

With a completely new ignition system, you've certainly moved the baseline settings!

The engine will "like" a certain amount of spark advance (or retard even, at idle) and you're going to have to give it the timing it "wants" to get it to run at an acceptable idle speed.

Providing you get that issue resolved, you'll need to check/readjust your maximum spark advance as well. Moving the timing belt one or more notches to advance timing will definitely make your max-adjustment change.

What you really need is a later-model timing decal, or fasten a degree wheel to the flywheel and use a timing light! It would really help to know what the actual timing is, but kinda hard to do without a timing scale!

HTH & let us know what happens next.........ed

BTW, I forgot to mention that to advance belt timing, once you pull the belt off the distributor, rotate the dist. pulley one notch in the clockwise direction (as viewed from top).

This makes the distributor fire earlier, in relation to the flywheel, and increases engine speed.

Thanks Ed - I did some work on it before seeing your post and I took a very similar approach (near as I can tell)

After a few adjustments and some silly misteps, I hit the mark or at least much closer to it. The first few adjustments resulted in the motor not running at all. Then I realized I was going in the wrong direction (retarding it vs advancing it).

So I started over. Control Cables connected, throttle at nuetral, fast idle lever down, distrib cap off. Engine with #3 at.222 BTDC, rotated the rotor counter clockwise until it hit the distrib drive, lifted the distributor belt off the distributor pulley. Keeping the rotor in contact with the distributor drive, rotated the distributor drive/rotor (not the body of the distributor!) until the rotor tang lined up with #3 cylnder contact point on the cap (which is marked on the distrib pan). Held it all in place and wrestle the drive belt back onto the distributor pulley.

Pumped the gas up, hit the key, VAROOM! With the fast idle lever up, she rev'd high, with the lever down she settled to probs 800 rpm.
Up/down/up/down with the lever and no stumbling.

Once again, not enough time use the timing light and Tach to see what the numbers look like, but am quite excited to take it to the water to set the idle and carbs and see how she does.

Sounds like you may have a winner! Awaiting the next report, Good Luck on the Water!

Peter Stransky, call my friend at 1 610 285 4516 his name is Jeff. Thanks.

Will do Dave.....

Thanks

Thought I'd drop an update. I got the boat out to the river today and was pleased with the results. It started easy and ran smooth at throttle. Still doesn't idle as smooth as I'd like, but I've yet to set the fuel mix on the carbs.

I made a few runs up and down the river and a long trolling run. Once I was sure it would hold together, I banged off 5 or 6 hole-shots. She responded great to all.

She's still not dialed in like Id like, especially idle or 'no wake' speed, but hey, the system seems to work. Trying to post some more videos....



edit 06/22, added

Your video is set to "Private" Peter, we can't view it.

try now!

It sounds really good! Running real clean at idle, likely 'cause of the high-voltage ignition!

There is also a piston position gauge depth for idle/ carb tip in BTDC timing so I'd mark that too and time your idle to it.
Depending on how far your initial mounting was there is adjustment for this with the idle screw stop. You then have to adjust the carb pick- up lever so Carbs tip in right. All this now has to be done with motor running where you can't go off points break method.
I applaud your efforts!!! One concern though will be WOT performance as these adapter type systems are not good above 6000 in a v 8 auto. Which corresponds to 4000 rpm 6 cyls two strokeill be interested how you find higher RPM Perf.
Randy