TOPIC: Hull ID numbers

I find it humorous how important Hull ID numbers have become in the last 20 years. It seems on most of our vintage boats it was more of an internal factory method to assist in their book keeping. Now states catalog and title boats, when they never used to care. Personally I liked it better when they did not care!

Here is the real funny part. I have 2 of these Larson Sea Lions. One open runabout and one 178 Cruiser model. Both of these boats have an aluminum plate with a number stamped into it. Here is the one from the cruiser.



I happen to know, Larson applied the hull plate, put a piece of masking tape over it and THEN.....coated the interior of the boat with the gray/black/white, speckle paint. They assumed the owner would pull the tape when the boat was licensed. My Crusier went 41 years before the hull number was exposed by me last week. Even though I knew it had to be there, I had to hunt pretty hard! I finally saw a straight line bump in the paint. Picking at it with my pocket knife I exposed the long forgotten Hull ID plate. So for the first time since It left the factory in 1960, my Sea Lion will be registered with its actual hull ID number!

I discovered quite by accident the one on my Runabout in about 1987 while mounting a water trap to the transom. That is how I knew where to look on the cruiser.

Do you know of any other manufacturers with odd practices mounting hull plates, or strange places were they were placed on your vintage boats?

J,.: good story / info .. You have my vote of the day.. Yes, quite
similar to the Custom Craft /Buffalo company, late 50's early 60's.
Would stamp / indent the transom AL cap plate , but Upside down & small .. Usually wear scratches would hide it .

Just yesterday on our Glasspar link, guy had nice pic of early 59 id # Stamped in a circle into a Piano / fender WASHER ,up under the center deck.. Before they used small brass tags..

Split wrote:

J,.: good story / info .. You have my vote of the day.. Yes, quite
similar to the Custom Craft /Buffalo company, late 50's early 60's.
Would stamp / indent the transom AL cap plate , but Upside down & small .. Usually wear scratches would hide it .

Just yesterday on our Glasspar link, guy had nice pic of early 59 id # Stamped in a circle into a Piano / fender WASHER ,up under the center deck.. Before they used small brass tags..

Now that is a unique method! LOL

Larson stamped 3/8" tall numbers into various wood parts of the boat near the back for years. When there was no more exposed wood, they had to come up with something else. (like metal tags hidden under thick layers of paint)

Remember that there were no requirments for boat makers to put any ID on their boats (hull ID, serial number, VIN, or whatever) until November 1972. So it was up to each individual builder to have a system or not have one. For example, Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. did not have any ID on their boats until circa 1946. So for their first 42 years of building boats, they didn't use any ID on them. Chris-Craft had a very clear defined ID system that went back to their earliest days in 1922. And luckily for us today, their production records still survive (they are at the Mariners' Museum in Newport News, VA).

If a boat builder used a hull ID or serial number prior to 1973, it was up to them to come up with their own system. It may have been logical for the company at that time, but for us today it probably makes no sense. The model year or year of manufacturer may or may not have been a part of the ID.

I had a circa 1956 Glasspar Club Lido for a while. It's ID was stamped into a metal fender washer on the inside of the transom.

I posted an article about the post 1972 hull ID system mandated by the US Coast Guard into the Library forum here. Hopefully someday it will make it into the Glassic Library.

Andreas

Larson's system was order of production then the 2 digit year for many of the wood boat years. You would have a number like 3341 which would be the 33rd boat made in 1941. It was simple and since the records are lost, nice to know the year of your wood boat. (if the number did not wear off over time)

The glass boats do not seem to follow this system. I would suspect they ordered consecutively numbered aluminum tags printed "Larson Boats Little Falls MN". You can't see it in the photo, but the tag in the first post says that over on the left of the numbers.

I'm trying to figure out what chemical I can use on the tag to remove the old masking tape residue but not the original printing on the tag. I've found dish soap, left there wet for days can work. Anyone else have a substance they like better?

Andreas has it right. The HIN was not required by law until 1972. Originally we (USCG) intended it to be only a means of identifying who made the boat, when it was made and what standards applied at the time it was made. Talk about the law of unintended consequences! This is a great example.

It has since become a law enforcement tool for recovering stolen boats and fraud, and been adopted by ISO and the rest of the world.

You were lucky that it was Larson. They were one of few who were putting any kind of identification on their boats.

However when you register the boat the state will probably issue you a state HIN because your serial number doesn't meet the requirements of an HIN. But it's still good to know and can be part of the description of the boat.

Minnesota can be a nanny state at times but they don't seem to care about old boats so much. They just used the correct number as the hull ID when I transferred it. There was some date in the 80s where they would have issued a title for a boat newer than that. It has to do with length and age. This boat is older than they care to bother with. I could demand that they title it, but I did not. These boats are unique enough now that it would be hard to hide such a boat in today's world. They have no real market value anyway. Sure there are a few high value Glassics, but most are worth more to their owners than they would be on E-bay.

They did get all bent about the trailer. It seems the trailer, the crappy, rusty, "will I make it home" trailer, has passed through several owners without paperwork. Wow did that set them off.

My '57 and '60 Glastron Fireflites have a piece of cardboard with glastron info printed on it, and a hand written, in pencil, serial number. It's upside down under the left rear deck, covered with a little resin.

The '59 Larson Falls Flyer has a small brass tag glassed into the underside of the rear deck. Until I sanded and polished the resin, it couldn't be read.

My '57 Cobra Commando has a small metal tag riveted on the back of a front seat.

My '57 Sprayline has a small metal tag nailed to the inside of the rotted wood transom.

My '61 Redfish Shark has a number stamped into the aluminum metal transom cap, on the inside, upside down.

You just don't know what or where you'll find numbers.

And a bit of trivia. Recently Kansas has begun issuing KAZ numbers (12 digit state issued HIN numbers) regardless of history or correctness of original serial numbers. As of today, Missouri continues to use the original number if it's there. I'm sure it varies wildly from state to state.

Personally, I think it should be a crime for the state to change the serial number. That takes a lot away from the boat.

Austinsailor wrote:

The '59 Larson Falls Flyer has a small brass tag glassed into the underside of the rear deck. Until I sanded and polished the resin, it couldn't be read.

Interesting. That must have been their transition between stamping in wood to the pre printed aluminum tags on the 1960's models. Fun to know! Typical of Larson, paint over the HIN tag. LOL

Personally, I think it should be a crime for the state to change the serial number. That takes a lot away from the boat.

Agreed. All states should recognize an original HIN over a made up one. Even if an official number has been issued and then an original number is "discovered", the original should take priority over the made up number. If they want to make the numbers fit a system, they should issue a title number, but also place the original hull number on the title if one is known.