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TOPIC: Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile
Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18197
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Brian moved to the second pin hole out on his merc1350, and I think he's got her dialed in. What do you guys think?
Little cool on the Hudson today, but men have to do what men have to do... 
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18199
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Sweet! Quite a rooster tail too.
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Mark
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18204
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Awesome, looks great. It was kind of cool on the Potomac today also, but hey, had to get some fresh gas run through the Fat Fifty after thrity years. Going out tomorrow on Patuxent, will take more pics and a movie, I hope.
Sorry to ramble!  Frank Pics and movie are GREAT! Brian She looks perfect!!!!!!!!!!! Bob |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18210
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Looks great, that hull rides nice. Frank I think you're Brian's official photopgraher now..hehe
Both of you have had great stories to follow as you restore those hulls. All three of them are very unique and have a lot of your hard work in them. It shows, an you should both be proud. I think this should be Brian's next project  http://www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/wood-boats/look-at-what-i-found-a-1958-borum-caballero#18209 |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18248
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Thanks Chris. Gonna redo the deck on mine next spring, but she sure runs well now. Brian has his Glen-L dialed in, but I'm not sure about his Power Cat. Dual vintage motors sure are cool, but I'm glad it's him and not me!
Frank |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18256
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F - Made it to Williamsburg. Give me vintage motors any day. I don't mind putting money in them to bring them back. Can do that all day long compared to what a new one costs. B
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18258
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I assumed you made it to Williamsburg B. Good for you.
I like vintage outboards, but just one at a time please! F |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18336
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I have watched this video over and over and finally figured out what is bothering me about it. The 22x14 2 blade cupped SS prop appears to be lifting the transom which of course pushes down the nose. Stop the video as you watch it. You can see the Pettit Hard Racing Bronze the entire length of the side. So what do I strap on to sink the transom and raise the bow more? Better than before. Not pushing as much water. Getting 43 mph out of it but think there is more with a different prop. This motor pushed the Manta Ray about 57 mph, but lighter and a very different hull.
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18337
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B, do you have a tach on the Glen-L? That would help you figure o9ut the right prop. Weren't you wondering about the transom position or angle on that boat too? F
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18339
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Post a picture of the rear of the boat on the trailer (transom shot) and give the approximate hull weight. Looks like you would benefit a lot from a setback bracket. Generally, lots of "out" trim with little bow rise requires setback to move the trim "pivot point" back. If you look at a newer bass boat, or a hot outboard vee bottom like an Allison, Hydrostream, etc. you will see a "notch", or recess, at the bottom of the transom. This moves the trim "pivot point" farther away from the motor, making trim more precise and effective. Picture a teeter totter with the pivot moved near your seat. Requires a lot of effort to lift a child at the other end. Move the pivot away from you, effort gets less the farther you move it. Go too far away, obvious problems diminish benefits. Setbacks range from a few inches to a few feet (offshore boats) so sizing is important. Looking at the Missile, stab guess would be four to six inches. Add a bass boat style prop (three blade with heavy cup) and you might want to add grab handles for your passengers!!!!
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18340
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Trying this for the first time. Hope it works.
cook-mfg.net/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_12&products_id=7
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18341
I agree,, more rake style prop for bow lift, see if you can borrow a mercury tempest,if this helps lift the hull then using a tach dial in the pitch |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18345
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Interesting point you bring up on the setback Kerry. I just finished reading the project reports on a fast boat, and one report was done completely on motor setback and prop selection to obtain maximum speed:
www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1388953§ionid=308 I don't know if you want to use a piece of aluminum hardware on the transom of that beautiful Missile Brian, but thought the info might come in handy somehow. |
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Mark
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 4 months ago #18361
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Brian,
The guys above exactly reiterated what I was explaining in my e-mail from a couple weeks back regarding the set-back bracket, power trim and propeller rake. That's where your speed lies... Also, how straight is the bottom? Have you laid a straight-edge on it, lengthwise? When you strip it down and glass it this winter, that would be the perfect time to blueprint the bottom. Fill any low spots, grind down any high spots and make it as uniform as possible. Any hook in the bottom could make the bow-down attitude that much harder to overcome... - Scott |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18384
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MarkS wrote:
Waterproof adhesive and some pieces of finished wood can make it look better. Or, if someone can paint a faux wood pattern..... |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18393
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Kerry wrote:
I was thinking along those same lines after I made that post and went to work Kerry. (Initially I wondered about constructing a set-back spacer out of wood, but quickly dismissed that idea, didn't want to sound stupid. LOL) I think Brian mentioned painting the hull this winter, it could be painted to match so it wouldn't "stand out" so much. (Probably I should have remained silent and not proven the stupidity, sorry guys.) |
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Mark
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18403
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Brian? Any thoughts about our opinions, good or bad?
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18404
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Well yes! I am in Williamsburg, VA so computer is a little spotty. I have read everything a number of times. That said, I need to think about what I want out of this boat. It is incredibly smooth riding as is. 43 mph isn't bad, but isn't going to win any races. But I'm not entered in any races either. Before I do anything to the transom or mounting I'll play more with propellers. I am not going to go take this boat and run at WOT for hours on end. Far more likely I'll take the wife for a cool ride at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and then 'blow it out' the last mile home. I just feel the boat can do more, but am not interested in jack plates and all that's needed to make it into a performance boat. Just looking at the video I know that prop is lifting the tail end and pushing the bow down. I really only want to play with props and get what I can I can out of it. I don't need to be on the hairy edge.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on the topic. Brian |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18464
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Know what you mean. Even though my former boat (1972 Checkmate 14', 125 hp Evinrude) ran 60, spent more time going 40. Just nice to be able to "tear the ears" after a while. Miss that boat. That said, many of us concur a bass style prop with rake and cup is the E-ticket prop for your Missile. 22-24" pitch three blade.
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18516
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I'm curious about something. When you built your Missle, a hull designed for a V-drive and having 0 degrees at the transom, did you build in any degrees into the transom or build it as in the plans?
At the very least an outboard hull should have a 12 degree transom. If yours is at zero all the jackplates and set backs and prop changes in the world will not help your boat unless you have a custom bracket built that has zero degrees built into it at the transom and 12-15 at the other end. Good looking boat by the way. |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18532
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Old Rigger: Interesting Comment . I believe the Missile was acquired in the middle of winter, already built ,but never had a engine mounted. Think Brian had to remove snow / ice & get it moved for not much $$.
. Is your suggestion to mount some sort of shim (?)(a few extra washers) at the TOP ouboard Bolt holes to tilt the housing backwards some .? Seems in his top pics there is a rooster tail (Maybe for show ) , but if the power trim is all way inwards, or manual pin closest to hull , there is no DEGREE of tilt .?? Would this effect have the prop pushing the bottom of transom down into the water,or bouncing against the water, thus killing speed .? . My son had a 20' O/b speed hull , prior owner reworked & not full range of motion on P.trim,(?) so we added some sort small wedge shim & improved performance. |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18538
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I doubt you could add enough shims to make up 12 degrees. I've see them on different sites for sale, like 'Bobs', but I think they're 4 or 5 degrees and are for transoms that already have some degree to it.
I have no idea how this Missile is set up but if I remember right the transom height for a stock Missile V-drive hull is somewhere around 14 or 16 inches, very short...and square. The way this boat rides, very flat and stuck to the water (the water should be breaking off the chine about 2 or 3 feet in front of the transom, not in front of the dash) it looks like it's dragging an anchor behind the boat. I found another shot of the boat at rest in the water and it looks like there might be much more lower unit below the bottom than maybe should be. This is of course a guess. I'd like to see just where his anti cav plate is on the lower unit in relation to the bottom. On a flat bottom it should be at least an inch above, and this 135 should run like stink on this hull, deep into the 50s. Can also see from this shot that the transom is indeed set up at zero degrees. 
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18540
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The Missile wouldn't be throwing a roostertail if the gearcase was too far down. It's just hard for an outboard to carry the bow of a flatbottom without setback. Vee drives push the bow up by using the propshaft to push up into the V drive itself, which is mounted solidly in the middle of the hull. Outboards use leverage on the transom, hence my earlier discussion on setback plates. Since he doesn't want to race, prop selection should give him a few more mph with less trim needed.
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18545
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No, it's throwing a rooster tail, a very small rooster tail, because of all the trim in that set up. When you ad the +12-15 degrees from the get-go for being mounted on a square transom and then add in what ever the 2nd pin hole adds to it, it's a poor set up. I bet it struggles a little to get on plane, it should jump on it with little to no bow lift.
Set back isn't needed to carrying the nose on a 16 foot flat bottom. Any tower of power down to a 90 horse should make that hull fly if the transom degree was correct as well as the X dimension. The reason he needs a set back, if he so chooses, is to correct the transom degree and raise the engine. My dad and his buddies ran flat bottom outboards, both wood and glass hulls, all through the 60's with no problem carrying the nose...and they didn't even have the luxury of power trim. Later they did have home made hand pumped units. Dads old 16' Conquest with a 75 horse 'Rude, short shaft and a bronze two blade would run 51 in the early 1960's. No set back as there was no set back to be had, just a good set up after experimenting. I'd give anything to have that boat again. 
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18550
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For what it's worth fellers, Brian's 1350 is a short shaft. I have no idea where his cavitation plate sits relative to the bottom, but I'm sure he'll pipe in at some point. This is a great discussion.
Frank |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18552
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This IS a great discussion! The original boat was never completed. I got the boat, and about 1500 pounds of ice, free. I removed the old transom and built a 2" thick new one and installed it at 0 degrees. Had I changed the angle it would have destroyed the looks of the rear end in my opinion. I spoke to Glen L. Witt, the designer, regarding the transition and he also suggested a 10 degree minimum angle. I chose not to do that. The boat is a little slow out of the hole, but not terrible, but I am not going to pull skiers with it. I am sitting at the conference I'm at with a friend from Puget Sound. He runs a 350 block Chevy in a wake boat. Gets 43 mph out of it, same as mine. I am actually thrilled with the Missile, just want to play with props to get more out of what I built if I am able to. Thanks all for the thoughts.
Brian |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18555
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Glen Witt is a cool guy. His shop is just up in the next town. In fact he's the last guy standing around this area. All the boat shops I grew up hanging out in as a kid and later working in for 30 years are all gone or moved away.
I'm still curious about the X on your set up and would love to see a shot sometime of the boat/engine out of the water. Those are such good looking hulls. I bought the Missile plans and the Rebel plans to someday re-create my dads boat. The Rebel is about 60-70% of dads boat, the sheer line's totally different as is the anti trip bottom. I changed the plans to fix the bottom but changing the sheer is above my pay grade. I like the full stringers of the Missile too. |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18556
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PC1000 wrote:
I'm guessing it's a late short shaft? 20 inches? Dads was a 15 inch short shaft, 15 inch transom to match. Looking again at Brian's transom I can see where he raised it. |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18561
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O.R. : Glen - L just had their East Coast rally a few weeks ago here in hot Chattanooga, called the GATHERING. I believe the west coast gala is called "Rendezvous". Big web forum there also . his daughter Gayle sort of main co contact. Here is a link to some of the boats that showed. Three day , about 100 people, over 30 boats, some still unfinished. Yellow BUZZ BOMB is a MISSILE from Nashville.
outdoors.webshots.com/album/578643074jzsTDT
.......... 
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18562
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Crosbyboat
old rigger has zero'd in on an issue we wernt aware of or didnt notice, and he certainly found a contributing factor if not the main reason your hull runs like its hooked I would suggest you try the T&H transom wedges they are cheap $35 & will add 5 degrees....now if this improves the handling then try the prop change, we all agree that a bass boat type prop with rake & cup that will help to lift your bow now if you find this all going in the correct direction you could add an additional 4-5 degrees using a jack plate that you can re drill to offset the adjustments and additionally raise the motor at the same time for dialing in additional mph for a near perfect setup your boat is so beautiful, & has the power........... 
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18563
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old rigger wrote:
I don't know the year, maybe late 60's early 70's. But it is a short shaft. Short is 15", standard is 20", extra long is 25". Frank |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18564
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Split wrote:
Wow Split! I want that yellow bomb! Hubba hubba! Frank |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18565
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PC1000 wrote:
I don't know the year, maybe late 60's early 70's. But it is a short shaft. Short is 15", standard is 20", extra long is 25". Frank[/quote] Well that's pretty nice then as 15 inch mercs are extremely rare. The standard short shaft of the industry, for decades, has been the 20 inch. Back in the day the 20 was considered the long shaft. No builder makes a transom with a 15 inch height any longer except for small fishing boats I'd guess...or a Glen L! |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18566
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Thanks for that link Split.
A nailhead in that Buzz Bomb! Very cool. |
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18584
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It's a 1971 1350 short shaft; a true 15". Really busy this week being on travel and no access to photos. I will post some of the bottom etc, when I get home.
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Re:Brian Lawson's Glen-L Missile 15 years 3 months ago #18585
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Although they may not be perfect camera shots for determining the exact height of Brian's anti-vent. plate, the shots in this thread right after the motor was mounted on the Missile give a pretty good idea of where it's at:
www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/main-forum/missile-fueled-and-fired#3985 (Thought there was a video too, but I haven't found it yet.) |
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Mark
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