TOPIC: Chrysler Rebuild

Purchased online from eBay a 1972 Chrysler charger 16' with a Chrysler 105hp motor. Over the course of a year I plan on a complete rebuild of the boat interior and transom. Lots of pictures. I've restored MANY glassics and woodies over the years but took a few years off. Now I'm getting back into the disease and hope to share some tips and get some tips. Follow along.
The "Sabre" name came from a Century that I restored a long time ago and got acquainted with this website.

Started today. For info this is my work area in my basement. Pretty cramped but I share it with three cars.
The morning was spent cleaning the rusted tight and corroded shifter. there was a mouse nest in there for 24 years and it was not moving. Witness marks where someone tried moving the shift button with a plyers. Other pics are of the interior after starting to gut it out. Surprising solid floor since Chrysler filled the entire bilge area with solid foam. Only rotted area was around the screws that held the seats in place.
I'll be jumping around subject matter, I get bored real easy and need to change the pace.

I'm thinking these things were built like tanks but I'd bet the foam has absorbed water. My Evinrude was saturated but still solid too.

I'm guessing if nothing else, you'll need to remove rear flooring a foot or so from transom forward to investigate & repair the visual damage. That will give you an honest idea if it's waterlogged.

Couple things today. Got the Clymer manual for the motor and best of all the PO who only lives 5 miles from me called and I got news of what I suspected all along. The transom did not rot out, the bilge plug was left in over winter and water froze and separated the transom from the hull. That gives me another avenue of approach. I plan on drilling a few core samples in the floor to see if its waterlogged or not and then do the drill test on the transom to see if it's dry or not. PO said it was covered but I wouldn't take that to the bank. Also there were three or four different variations of the 105hp motor concerning electronics. Tracing wires didn't make sense until I found out that the control box had been replaced at one time. Tomorrow I'll do a compression check and see if I can get a poop out of it. I don't have a gas tank for it or muffs so I'll spray some gas in the carbs to see what happens. Of course the impeller will be replaced either way.

\\Doing exploratory on the motor today. Compression is excellent, starter, solenoid, circuit breaker, interlock switch all working as they should. Dizzy is hard to see using mirror but it looks like the points are not lined up or burned.
Question for anyone, can the points be replaced without taking the dizzy off. I can see where someone already messed around in there. I don't think the timing is set correctly. mark on the dist does not coincide with anything on the flywheel. The dist. advance was hardened up with old grease so I freed that up with carb cleaner and WD. Also can the coil and CD unit be tested? It's a no spark issue.

Found a service manual for the motor that downloaded in a PDF. Looking at the timing marks it might be in the proper position, opins?
All the wiring checks out for continuity so I'm looking directly at the CD module/coil combo. Not the chepist part but I think I found a replacement/upgrade that replaces the part #. Prices jump from $460. to $395, same unit different dealers. Again, opinions??

No spark, eh? Well if the thing indeed does have points, they probably need a good cleaning and regapping.

I'd pull 'em out completely and then clean them with a whetstone or medium sandpaper, then polish with crocus cloth. You'd have to find the points gap spec in that manual.

If you'll post that link, I'll download the manual so I can follow along.

BTW have you checked out the CDI electronics ignition troubleshooting manual? It is posted online, with an irritating format. that's because they want you to spend $48 and buy the "unirritating" manual!

But the Chrysler section is right up front, so you don't have to thumb thru much of it. You'll need to find the applicable section for that older ignition.

One thing I was reading about on a different boating forum, is that if the distributor is a points module, you could adapt any type of CD-ignition to it, or even convert all the way back to points-and-battery operation. You'd need a ballast resistor if you use a coil without internal ballast. Also add a condenser to the points, if converting back to standard ignition.

They had a warning not to use an automotive, oil-filled coil. But isn't that what the old Inlines ran, with the dual-coil setup? Seems to me they were glorified car coils. I never heard of one of those blowing up, and I know there's been plenty of Mercury Dudes who have replaced one of those bad coils with a car coil!

Before spending HUGE dollars on the OE Chrysler replacement stuff, you can replace that with a Chrysler automotive CD power pack. These were commonly used on 70's Chrysler products. A lot cheaper than the Outboard ignition parts.

Any points setup can be made to work with the Chrysler box or aftermarket boxes such as the MSD 6A, which is about $250. But would be Light Years ahead of the 70's Chrysler outboard technology, and far more reliable.

I also found an article at a hot-rodding site about using the Ford TFI ignition module to fire a points system. These can be found Dirt Cheap on eBay, BTW.

This is a good read:

www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/adding-cdi-to-points-ignition.1253424/

Here's the writeup on the TFI ignition module:

www.49ccscoot.com/manuals/FORD%20TFI%20electronic%20ignition.pdf

This one has a ton of good info that I'm sure you'll be highly interested in:

www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/1969-chrysler-75-hp-outboard-ignition-coversion.52047/

Anyway, I'd seriously some sort of conversion, before laying down Big Buck$ for the outboard ignition parts.

Well, hope that helps. Let us know what you run into next!................ed

Found some good info on the Chrysler CDI box; how it was used, part numbers, etc etc.

www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/mopar-electronic-ignition-ecms-which-to-consider-and-what-to-avoid.296065/

www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/ignition-modules/product-line/standard-motor-ignition-modules/replaces-oem-part-number-application/chrysler-4111850

You can get that LX-101 box cheap on eBay, and Rockauto carries versions of it, too.

This article has a good description toward the end of the pin-out of the LX-101 4-pin module:

www.hemmings.com/stories/electronic-ignition-swaps/

Thank you! Just getting into it a little deeper this coming week and not pulling the trigger (little play on words) yet. I did download a sheet on testing the CD so I'll do that today. Looking under the dash last night and the wiring was a mess, dirty, corroded and lot of twisted wires wrapped around connections, ign key studs etc. That all needs to be addressed before I go down a rabbit hole. Make sure it's not just a bad contact situation. Pardon the neophyte question but if I run a test spark plug directly from the coil secondary I would get a spark, maybe just one initial? If no spark off the coil before it goes to the dizzy than it would tell me the CD is bad? If I get a spark off the coil but not the dist. that narrows the problem to the distributor? Just shooting blanks here.
Leave it to some engineer to hang the dist. upside down
www.manualslib.com/products/Chrysler-105-H-P-3964513.html
www.outboardignition.com/forcesearch.asp?cval=3&hval=23&val=6

Another step forward. Now I can concentrate on the motor without busting my arse on a stepladder getting in and out of the hull. That little room is hopefully where the magic happens.

Took a day break from spark diagnosis and did other things. replaced terminal ends on ign. switch. Took a look at why the trim/tilt wasn't working. Pulled the pump, pistons are all sealed and working but the pump motor is ka-put. Looking for another motor and found one on eBay that might fit, contacted seller for measurements. also looking at a local used outboard friend to see if he would have something.
I did turn the motor over again just for giggles, still no spark, not getting anything from the coil to the dist.
If I install a new CD and get spark the motor should run even if the stator is bad right? would be running off battery power.

Yeah, that Magnapower system is self-contained. Long as it has power, it'll run. Of course, when the battery goes flat, so does the ignition! The stator on these serves only as a charging winding, such as did the older Mercs with distributors (or magnetos with charging system, for that matter).

Merc didn't go to the ADI (Alternator Driven Ignition) system on their big outboards until around '79.

Thanks again, each day I learn and confirm. Since I only paid $108 for the boat, motor, trailer I can spend some $ on parts but NO PARTS CANON. That's why I want to cover bases with experts like you.

Cheep! Cheep!

heh heh yup. Just finished putting the shifter back together, late night project.

Hello Cal and welcome back.



Our friend da coach was working on a couple of those Chryslers.


He often shows up at the Geneva Lake show so hope to see you there too.

Thanks,
Terry

Hey Terry, good to be back and getting back in the show. Took a few years off while caregiving for the Admiral Alz.
That's good news, I could use some coaching on the repair of the transom. Really hope to get down to Geneva and meet up with some of the old gang. Maybe catch a glimpse of my old Sabre that was last seen running that area.

Did all the tests on the electronics and CD was dead. Pulled the Distributor and the points were way out of alignment and burned. A little black on the rotor and one plug wire contact but other than that It looks good. Ordered a NOS point set off eBay $19.90 + $4 shipping. Marineengine wanted $65. for the same stock #. Learning from experience to mark my territory.

Work on the motor stopped while waiting for parts. Digging around on the transom and find that the upper half is dry and solid which is unusual since most rot begins from the holes holding the motor or owners drilling holes somewhere. This one is soft on the bottom I'm guessing from water due to the freezing. I started chipping away and it's wet but actually firm. PIA working from the inside, so I decided to do a skin removal. only did the skin removal on one other. Thinking of doing a split build which should work.

Dug out the wet bottom of the transom and made a template for the filler pieces. 1 3/4" thick so later in the build I think some of you will be surprised at how I'm going to do this, done it before. Still waiting for motor parts. Been down this road a few times before.

Christmas coming early this week. Yesterday got new muffs for water and a pitot pickup. Today the 10 fuse block, CD unit, tilt/trim motor all came at once. The new tilt motor is a two wire and the old rusted one is a three wire so I had to order two relays but I can use the original switch. Should be getting the new NOS points next week.

Cal,
Will be in Ogdenburg Tuesday until about 1. Then no plans but WX calls for rain & I could use a Menards run.
Maybe I could come up your way???

That would be great. less than an hour away. It only takes me around 40 minutes to get to Appleton so Ogdenburg probably 45 minutes? Menards is 15 minutes away. I have a 11% coupon you could use If you decide to head my way give me a text. nine2zero6three9nine0six7. Got a nice sleezy biker bar down the road that has great burgers.
I could use some explanation on how that 2 wire trim pump works. Waiting for some 5 contact relays to arrive in the mail from eBay.
Yard work today, it's been slipping a few days.

New distributor points came this afternoon so I'll be re-installing the dizzy Tuesday. Installed the tilt/trim pump and pretty sure I have the piping correct. Waiting for the 5 contact relay's to arrive so I can wire that up and test it out.

Spent a great afternoon with jimandros yesterday. learned a lot. I have a questionable pipe routing on the trim/tilt.
Thought I had it right but the trim loaded ok and the tilt failed to raise so I think I have the pipes in the wrong positions, anyone have a diagram of what pipes to where? The four in/out holes on the pump, I don't know which ones are which. The only thing I can do is disconnect the pipes and run the pump to see where the juice squirts out.
Thinking I have the two middle ones reversed. ??

Replaced all the fuel lines, re-wired the rectifier/regulator according to schematics, thank you Jim for pointing this out. 3M 5200 arrived in the mail so I can begin replacing the transom. Already cut out pieces and dry fitted them.
The transom will be reinforced with two 3/8" rebar inserted from the top through the existing piece and through the new lumber. Entire transom will be glued with 3M 5200. and then fiber glassed over.

Starting to put the skin back on the lower transom, should finish that by this weekend. Put new fuel lines on the motor and ran it without any issues. amazing for a motor that sat for 24 years. Will be replacing the impeller next week, had to disconnect the trim/tilt feed lines because i'm still having an issue of which lines go where. Trim will go up and then lock up and not go back down so I know the lines are in the wrong positions. Any hydraulic gurus please chime in.

Welcome back Cal!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sooo very sorry to hear about the Admiral. Sorry, had the email you sent, went to reply and the damn thing wasn't in the inbox! Anyway, glad your back at it. Looks like it's keeping you busy and that's a good thing. Good progress so far buddy! Yeah I've been off for quite a while myself. I have been working on the Resoter though, I need to update my post with the current status, it's getting there. LOL I'll drop you a line, don't want to hijack this thread.

Bob

Worked on the water impeller today, what was left of it. PO or whoever replaced it 30 years ago left a total cluster. The impeller housing bolts/screws were all mashed up making it impossible to remove, even an impact screwdriver couldn't undo the damage. Had to drill out 3 of the 4 machine screws, they were just mild steel. Check out those impeller vanes!!
Have the bolts soaking with Blaster so they can be removed maybe tomorrow.

Maybe a Chineseum water pump kit is in order?

On the bright side, there is no doubt it was time for a new impeller.

Well, that happens when impellers get old! And I wouldn't use a Chinesium impeller! Can't trust 'em.

You can get a new pump body kit with 4 new bolts on eBay for around $75 shipped. P/N FK500060, just plug it in the eBay search engine and sort by price lowest first.

This is a $180 part at marineengine.com! Add it to your watchlist, and the seller may come back with a discounted offer. I doubt it's a fast-moving part.

A real replacement impeller, P/N 47-F438065-1 is under $40 shipped at marineengine.com:

www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=MER47-F438065-1

You'll find much better deals on eBay. Look for original parts in OE packages.

If it ain't in an OE package, then it's most likely Chinesium. Sierra Marine aftermarket or Aquapower would be OK as well.

The pump gasket P/N 27-F84031 is only $2.70 plus shipping at marineengine.com:

www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=MER27-F84031

Cheapest eBay price I found: $5.50 shipped.

That should take care of most of the consumables, the rubber compressible sleeve on the top of the driveshaft is probably ok, if not it's cheep, too. Unless the pump plate is beat up, it should be reusable as well.

BTW congrats on getting that ignition system squared away, and getting 'er fired up! That's a pretty good accomplishment. Ready for the water soon, eh!!

I don't Chineseum anything, I was busting Cal's balls.

I do use some Sierra parts but you will also find "Sea Sierra" on Ebay with a similar logo for cheap. I would assume these are also Chineseum junk.

Found a Sierra one on eBay for $23. free shipping. There were a few other impellers that would fit the application but went with the one with the 12 vanes since it's what was in there. With this installed the motor on the project will be finished.
Jim, I did install the CDI ignition and it ran but wouldn't shut off with the key, needless to say the motor ran for a few minutes while I endured the electric shock treatment disconnecting the coil wire. I probably had the 12V feed wired to the hot red wire instead of the key feed. I switched back to the original CD for now and keeping the new CDI for a backup.

Went to my supply of stainless bolts and screws and found four screws that are perfect for the pump cover.

So heat & oil along with vise grips did the trick?

Pretty much Jim, not quite to the vice grip stage. Heat, PB Blaster and channel lock. A little hammering helped. Had to re-tap after to clean out all the corrosion. Still have to figure out the piping/routing of the tilt/trim hydraulic lines. I'll need some help on that problem. I really screwed up on those lines. Never took a picture of the piping before I removed the old pump. Still waiting for the 5 contact relays to arrive from China.
Will be finishing up the transom this week. All but finish flat board sanding, prime and paint. The engine running and transom were the two elephants in the room, the rest is all fun stuff cosmetic including re-design of the interior.

Been busy on the transom and dashboard the past few days. Painting the back today. Going to roll and tip, that always worked out good for me. Hate to take out the spray gun and stuff for just a small job.
A perfect example of my roll and tip work. I was cruising the web and found an old picture of the Herters flying fish that I restored quite a few years ago, I think there is a string on here somewhere. Anyway I had sold that boat for around $2100. I see it sold four years ago for $16,000 Someone appreciated my efforts

Managed to get 5 wet coats on before the activator set in. Probably 2 or 3 more "layers" tomorrow and then there will be enough build to cut and polish. Basement smells like a paint booth today even with my exhaust fan blowing out.
These are still old supplies I had from years ago.

Maybe a water test yet this fall?