TOPIC: Arjay Transom Pour - Outer Skin Delamination

Hey folks. After nearly a week of prep I made the pour this morning. Really impressed with the Arjay stuff so far. After about 9 hours it's rock solid.

But now I'm really bummed - I've run into an interesting problem. The outer skin delaminated (pulled away) from the Arjay core after it went through it's exotherm cycle. I discovered it after I pulled the clamps off to readjust. I know the first reaction will be "well the skin wasn't prepped properly" but all I can do is assure you that it was. Sanding, acetone, a resin coat (as recommended by Arjay), the works. On the port side of the outer skin, it's pulling away nearly a 1/16th of an inch. The starboard side is considerably better, but still has a gap.

What it looks like is that the skins are just simply misshapen - it wouldn't surprise me after nearly 60 years with the same transom, and who-knows-how-many years with a rotting transom core. Below is are pics of visible evidence of the skin pulling away, and my use of gorilla tape to hold it in the proper form.

Can I glass this a particular way to hold the correct form of the transom skins at the top? The gorilla tape has been holding for about an hour now. Could I emulate the use of the gorilla tape with glass strips and resin? Is there another method that I should be using?

Nice! Big fan of those poured transoms here.
I enlarged your picture and it appears that there is a little bit of shrinkage of the arjay. I would expect some of that shrinkage on topside of pour since polyesters shrink upon curing. Guessing the shrinkage is only at top of pour? How far down is that crevice?
I'd send the pics to Arjay and then call them for a reaction to your pic.
If they say your pour looks fine, then as you suggested if you do a cap layup with slightly heavy resin it will probably outlive us all.
Do report back I'll be interested to hear what they say.
Where did you get the arjay from??

I spoke with them this morning about it, and they suggested doing another pour to fill the gap. Here's the picture of the gap after taking the clamps off this morning:



It's about 1/16th of an inch. Folks on TheHullTruth have been talking about how the bond won't be strong at the top, but Arjay rep says that good glassing on the cap should make that OK. Lots of pros at THT so I'm taking their advice seriously, but I'm limited by what I can do at this point. Some mentions of using an aluminum plate on the outer skin before the motor is mounted, so I'm thinking about doing that as well just for added measure. Waiting until it gets hottest here in Tampa this afternoon to make the filler pour. Here's hoping.

I got the Arjay from Fiberglass Coatings in Largo, FL for $180 / 5 gal.

I see, perhaps not enough support for the transom during pour.
Bet when you tap a hammer on the transom it will sound solid now!

Oh man... that REALLY stinks! I know how frustrating it can be to have something not work - even when you follow all of the steps and advice. What type of resin did you use on the inside of the transom? If it was standard Polyester resin and not laminating resin it has wax in it. You are going to need a glue that is guaranteed to bond with both surfaces. Something isn't right, and using more of what you previously used - probably won't bond either.

I'm thinking that you need to get a long thin blade of some type and carefully pop the skin free of the core - all the way to the bottom - if possible. Then get a couple tubes of 3M 5200 ( Slow Cure ) and use the flat blade to slowly work the goop all the way down into the crack. The 5200 is like caulk consistency - and it will take patience and a bit of time to do it. That stuff will bond to most surfaces, even if not completely clean. Then the skin must be clamped to the core to squish the 5200 to as thin as possible. It may take a couple weeks to fully cure, so don't touch it after you have it clamped - no peeking - to check "progress"


The main challenge will be clamping the outer skin to the core - EVENLY - over the entire face.

man i hate that.. now from the pictures i am assuming the pour went fine the skin just didn't stick to the material . can you pour that small crack with the material? im thinking out loud my two cents whatever, i would drill small holes near the seperation mix up a concoction of something to glue, stick, bond the skin to the slab and inject it into the transom, then brace clamp nail anything even tape the outer skin back to the slab. if that stuff is as thick as my seacast, your not going to get it in the 1/16" crack. then go and lay up a cap half way down the top as you were in the beginning. i didnt pour mine for 6 months cause i was scared of screwing up 600.00 worth of seacast. i did anyway and it worked just as advertised. made two pours mix it with the fibers and poured into my void. i am just am green horn but that my thoughts.

billy wingard

well I ended up pouring more into the void between the skin and the core - that was the suggestion from the Arjay rep. One side of the transom is now just over an 1/8" wider than the other, but so it goes. The alternative is removing the skins and grinding down the Arjay, and I don't want any part of that. Maybe one day in the far off future.

The stuff is way more fluid than Seacast, but the material is quite a bit different than seacast. I'm guessing had I used Seacast instead, it wouldn't have done what it did. From what I had read, the Arjay was a better product, but it's definitely not as easy to work with as Seacast.

I used West System 105 + 206 on the skins before pouring the Arjay, waited for it to kick and then made the pour. I had two spots where the skins didn't bond. One was that bulge, which was filled Arjay and seemed to have made a good bond (though folks at THT say it's likely not bonded). The other is about halfway down the starboard side, but it's at a point where two through-transom bolts and a flanged drain tube are, which should pull it together.

Worst comes to worse, I'll throw an aluminum plate on the back until I save up to have major fiberglass work done on it.

WEST SYSTEM is Epoxy. Arjay is polyester putty

Poly will not stick to epoxy


There is your problem

bruce gerard wrote:

WEST SYSTEM is Epoxy. Arjay is polyester putty

Poly will not stick to epoxy


There is your problem

X2

Live and learn. Must mean the bonds I got were to areas that didn't get good/any epoxy cover then. She's not going to be perfect, but being a complete novice, I think it'll be OK. If the skins start to fail, it's just fiberglass, can always have it replaced. I'll be keeping a keen eye on it.

I hope all the mistakes I've made (posted a slew of videos on youtube throughout the process) and posts like these will help others.

We have all "been there" in one shape or form many, many times. Keep chipping away at the project - and keep asking questions.

Good luck -

Bruce

Interesting thread, glad you posted it. I've replaced many transoms with real wood and was always wondering about the pour stuff. Now you confirmed all my suspicions. Sounds like the pour stuff is like trying to take a shortcut. My first thought after reading the first post was to use the 5200 like Bruce suggested further down. Hope you finally got the results you intended.

63 Sabre wrote:

Interesting thread, glad you posted it. I've replaced many transoms with real wood and was always wondering about the pour stuff. Now you confirmed all my suspicions. Sounds like the pour stuff is like trying to take a shortcut. My first thought after reading the first post was to use the 5200 like Bruce suggested further down. Hope you finally got the results you intended.

I think that's a misleading statement to future readers. It's not a shortcut - it's an alternative to wood for folks who want longevity and water resistance beyond what wood provides. New boats are built with poured transoms, even my Sea Hunt has Coosa+poured compound combo in it.

There are shortcuts to any process, even for wood transoms. I don't think it's fair to say that a choice in material constitutes a shortcut. My problems with the process come down to a lack of knowledge and experience, despite all of my reading and preparation, plain and simple. Sometimes it's all about finding and acknowledging our own limits.