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TOPIC: Hole in the keel
Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #108997
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when working on my trailer last night I noticed a drip coming from the bottom of the boat . At firs I just thought it was a drip from the drain plug running under the boat. Upon further examination I found this. It is about 4 inches long on the side of the keel just forward of the aft keel roller. I did gently run aground the last time I had her out 2 weeks ago (actually drifted aground while fishing, What would be the best way fix this?
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109008
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dry it out.. grind it down and patch it up.. if you know how to work with glass its not a hard fix..
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109029
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There is a pictorial on fiberglass repair in the Research / Restoration section Hustler, here's a link;
www.fiberglassics.com/restoration/fiberglass-repair-pictorial Definitely park her with the bow up and drain plug(s) open for a while, really do you best to get the bilge and under-floor areas dried out. |
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Mark
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109039
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The other thing I would worry about is if the keel is waterlogged and rotted or starting to rot. Like Mark said, raise the bow, pull the plug and let any water drain out. Watch to see how much is in there. Hopefully not a lot. That's a good link to glass repair that Mark posted.
Bob |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109043
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I now have her parked like you said with the bow up and plug pulled.
I am going to drill a hole in the floor and send my endo scope in to see if I need to yank the floor and fix the keel. thanks for the link. Someone on Iboats said to use wet/dry 700 Kevlar Epoxy has anyone used this? Should I use poly-ester or epoxy resin? The only resin I have found around here is Bondo and it does not say what it is. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109074
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Some of the gang are more familiar with the epoxy resins, I'm sure they can fill you in on what and what not to use. I still use polyester resin, best source I've found is
www.USComposites.com
. Great product at reasonable prices - also glad to give advice on anything you get stuck on. I would NOT use the resin available at the big box stores, most of it contains wax which you don't want doing layup layers! Resin also has a shelf life, buying from a reputable marine FG supplier usually ensures you're getting fresh product.
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Mark
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109075
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I agree with MarkS. Uscomposites is where I buy. "435 is our most popular resin for marine construction, repair and general automotive applications. Excellent for all types of fiberglass lamination, layup, and repair work. Good strength and nice wet out make this resin very popular." - from their website. You could also get a bit of Fiberglass Cloth if you are grinding deep and need to feather out.
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Hello, World!!
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109164
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Would it be a good idea to open this up a little to make sure it is dry and get an idea of any internal damage before you seal it back up?
Bill |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 8 months ago #109202
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I have a similar problem. It is from one of those pesky rollers. The roller was set too high and the boat was actually cantilevered over it. Very bad situation. Anyhow, same as you, I noticed drips of water coming from it. I put it up and drained what I thought to be all of it, but I think water is trapped between some of the stringers. I used a shop vac and made a seal over the crack to suck out what I could. Seemed to stop the dripping. I'm going to 'V' out the crack with a grinder, lay in some thin woven glass pcs when the resin is almost kicked off (since it is upside down), then go over with new resin. I'll use West Systems since that is what I am used to working with. Any other ideas for upside down glass work??
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109315
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I opened it up some more and got some more water out. I thought it was dry but found a damp spot and pushed a 1/4 in drill bit through the fiberglass and got a steady stream of water for about a minute.
Should I cut out the fiberglass still in the gash? 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109351
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Hustler, keep up this post, I'm in the same position right now but with a sandwich hull, no stringers or frame. Just a steady drip.
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109390
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Will do on keeping the post going.
I opened it up some today. It was perfectly dry inside. however I did not find a wooden keel like I figured I would, just excessively thick fiberglass. Is it possible they did not use a wooden keel or stringer here. There is a board about a half inch above the fiberglass. I looked inside with my inspection camera and saw no apparent rot or water. I still need to grind it smooth and clean up the inside cut with a smaller cutting tool. My next question is how do you lay up 1/4-5/16 inch fiberglass without access to the backside? 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109399
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The plans I am thinking about a very similar to patching a hole in drywall. I would make up a curved tool of some kind to clean up and scratch the inside edges, dry it up, cut or make a patch of glass mat in a separate tray that is slightly larger than the hole but easy enough to slip through at an angle. Put a small screw in your new "patch" to act as a handle for you to manipulate it. Slobber some resin on the new patch edges and pull it tight to the inside of the hole and figure out a way to hold it in place until the resin kicks. Remove the screw and then use the mat/cloth method to fill the dent.
Here's a link to patching a drywall hole that can probably explain this better than my rambling. Just put up with the commercials  www.ehow.co.uk/video_7727354_patch-hole-drywall.html Hopes this gives you some type of lead. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109489
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Same thing here......was tired of watching the 'drip', so I hit it with a 1/4" drill bit. Steady stream of water for about 30s. I put a level on the keel and adjusted the trailer jack until it was level to get most of the water out. I keep adjusting up and down periodically to get it all out. I'm also running a dehumidifier next to it.
Found out that some fiberglass boats actually had a tube running along the bottom for water drainage. Anyone know anything about this? Thx. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109560
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Question on making peanut butter. Can I cut the ends of fiberglass mat in 1/4 inch lengths for the filler? I can't find any chopped glass like the videos I have found show. I am planning on using short strands and sawdust for the filler. I hope to be able to work on her Sunday. Tomorrow I have to do a photo-shoot for a local car show.
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109561
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I've cut up CSM for filler before, worked pretty well. I can't say about the sawdust, but I did try the ag lime and it worked well.
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Mark
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109568
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59Hustler,
Agricultural/Pulverized lime (from "the farmer's co-op" or a "seed & feed store") works at least as well as any other filler for homebrewed peanut butter & it's CHEAP. = I see NO good reason to use anything else. yours, satx |
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109571
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Here's the deal with using lime as a filler. It's hydroscopic, meaning it will absorb water, as will saw dust. That's the problem with all of the Bondo products. They use talc as their base filler and it too will absorb water. This causes an issue if and when your patch ever gets a scratch or gouge especially below the water line and you don't catch it for a while. Water absorbs, the patch swells and you're redoing the entire thing. If you use cabosil or some other Non water absorbing filler then you won't have to worry about this issue. Cutting your own strands from Scraps of CSM is perfectly fine and lots of people do it all the time. You can use what ever you want as a filler, just want you to be aware of some of the issues.
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109785
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Because of Mother Day I couldn't get to the boat on Sunday if I wanted to keep my sanity and my health. So I ordered some cabosil from some boat place in Mississippi off Amazon. It should be here this week. It was over 2 weeks from US composites or Iboats . I decided to go this way after what you said about the lime and saw dust being hydroscopic.
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #109799
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I wore one in the MFG. I had no plans on redoing the hull that year. I put in shoo goo into the hole and put plastic wrap and duct tape over it a few days since it would run out. It NEVER leaked a drop. It was abrasion resistant. When I did redo the hull some years later I had a time getting it out. It was a temporary repair meant to last the season and worked for years. When the repair was taken out it still looked good and was smooth to the surface of the hull yet. My boat is used in very shallow water and our ramps here are not fiberglass friendly if they meet.I maybe should have left it in and glassed over it.
 But who am I to say it was a good temporary repair.    |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110339
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I feathered it out but I think I went to deep. The curve caused the grinder to dig in. I also think that I need to make the hole larger so I can sand the inside of the hull.
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110343
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just an idea, wouldn't the talc or saw dust be absorbed with the resin? if so how could water be sucked into the peanut butter, will water displace resin?
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110344
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Hustler, you're doing good! With that much raw glass showing IMHO you'll have a good bite on the situation. When you start laying your mat some of it will no doubt ooze into and around that opening and be an anchor on the back side. I patched a hole that was 7" long and 4" wide a few weeks ago. Alternate between layers of mat and cloth. I think I put seven or more layers each one larger than the succeeding one and gradually build out to the original surface. You can do wet layers so you don't have to wait for the resin to set. In this picture I used a flat board with 60 grit paper the next day to fair it down and then used Bondo LONG STRAND to fill in the little dips.
One has to look hard and know where the hole was in order to find it. 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110396
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frog wrote:
Polyester resin will over time under constant immersion absorb water. So does Gelcoat. If Talc or other filler agents that absorb water are use, they will weaken the bond and cause it to fail. If you ever seen a Bondo patch that got wet you'll know what I mean. To Hustler, If you open up the hole a bit more you could make an interior patch from several layers of CSM and then goop up the edges on the inside and then pull it home with a string from the inside and hold it in place until it tacks up. Just like a drywall patch. Then do the outside repairs easy smeazy!! |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110414
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mike, thanks for clearing that up for me. I am trying to learn. frog
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 7 months ago #110486
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frog wrote:
Yeah, No problem. All Polyester based resin is Hydroscopic and therefore will absorb water. It does take a long long time and it's not a Real big issue but it does occur. That's why Gel Coat boats left in the Marina will develop Blisters sometimes. Water penetrates the porous gel coat and then bubble up the layers of gel coat in areas where the gel coat wasn't applied properly or mixed improperly. Same thing when using fillers. When you use Epoxy this isn't so much of a problem since epoxy is much more water resistant. You can pretty much use any filler you want and not worry about it but...with most epoxy products gel coat doesn't adhere very well. There is some epoxy where you can get good adhesion with gel coat but I'm still of the opinion that you're better off using a polyester base resin when using gel coat as the finish coat. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #110924
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Well I finally got around to it I made the first patch last weekend but it didn't turn out too god I think I made it too thick I used one more layer of mat to make it better. so I remade the patch yesterday but it was too large it met the size quoted as 2 inches larger but then it hit the inside bottom of the keel and wouldn't lay flat against the hull so I ground down that side this morning. I then made up my PB out of cut up mat and cabosil it was a little hairy compared to the pictures I saw on U-tube but it was PB consistency. I am now waiting for it to cure for the one hr.
I admit I was a little scared that is one reason it took so long. I am such a perfectionist. But then as my wife says, I get frustrated and make it worse. so I decided to just do it. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #110941
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It's hard to get the csm cut short enough for making PB, I guess that's why "milled fibers" come in so handy. I once thought about putting my clippings in a blender to make them more manageable. The good news is it just takes a little more grinding/sanding and it all works out the same.
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Mark
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111212
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Well I got at it again. But I need to go buy some more resin.
I cut my eight layers and had it all sanded down. Mixed up my resin and harder. I bad to layers laid down and went to wet out the third, when I stuck the paint brush in I found this. 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111213
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Well I got at it again. But I need to go buy some more resin.
I cut my eight layers and had it all sanded down. Mixed up my resin and harder. I bad to layers laid down and went to wet out the third, when I stuck the paint brush in I found this. 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111214
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Looks like too much catalyst
to me. Either that or you have to step up the pace somewhat. I usually mix 2 to 4 oz or resin at a time so it won't kick in before the end of the job. The ratio I use is 12 - 14 drops of catalyst to each ounce of resin. If it's a hot day use a few drops less. I use a glass Pyrex measuring cup for the resin, pour it into the mixing pot and then add the catalyst, mix with the brush and start working. Should give you 10 to 15 minutes of working time. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111221
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it was only 3 -4 minutes at the most. I poured what was left of the bottle of resin and what was left of the catalyst into the resin and mixed it up figuring that since I had measured what I had used earlier it would come out right
 . You know what assume means don't you. I have bought some more resin and will finish it up when the temps go down tonight or in the morning. it was 95 when I was working on it earlier it is 106 now. Should I sand over where I left off before I put another layer on? |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111228
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I would sand with some course stuff just to give the next layer some tooth to adhere to.
I do know the assume story and I've done the same thing many times. When it starts to gel up I quick look around for something to use it on. Me thinks it took about 29 years to figure out the ratio. Just because it's written in the directions doesn't make true, does it??? 
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111247
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Thanks for the help.
I used 10 drops today per oz. and that worked out well(temp was 95). I still have a few questions though. 1. When using the brush to put the resin on stippling it in, I always had long strands of mat follow the brush out. It also happened on the cloth but only on the edges. Is there a way to prevent this? I never saw this on any the videos. Some of this may be from working upside down (center bar of trailer now needs sanded and painted.  2. How do you clean up the brushes? I tried acetone but I still ended up throwing the two brushes I used away. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111249
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The strands always happen, I just keep dabbing more resin on, as it begins to set you can push them in a little more but they will sand off easily. Gotta remember most of the videos are made by people who do this for a living and probably know how to handle 'em better than us amateurs.
I always wear a pair of disposable latex gloves and use cheap throw away brushes, the kind you can buy at a big box store from a bin. Usually about .70 a brush. Nothing for me to go through several brushes and gloves at a session. You can use the same brush over for many batches and it won't set up until you let is sit idle. Once you get what you think should be your final layer let it set up, use a flat board with sandpaper to flatten down your repair to the surrounding area and then there will be some dips and dings. I usually fair them out with some bondo just for cosmetic reasons. Auto stores have what is called 'glazing putty' to fill in small dings and divots, real easy to work with and sands easy. High build primer will also fill in some sanding marks and imperfections. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111623
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Finished her up on Saturday. I still have a little bit more sanding to make her look really nice but then I would end up doing the whole hull. I used some Rustoleum outdoor furniture spray paint made for plastic to paint her I couldn't find the Rustoleum paint they talk about on here at Lowes or Home depot but then again I couldn't find a sales person either. At least not from that department,
I took the boat out on Sunday and the patch worked great. The paint is still on and no leaks. Well at least she didn't sink. |
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Re:Hole in the keel 10 years 6 months ago #111626
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Glad we could help. You will not have any problems with that patch, probably stronger than the rest of the hull that is unless you run up on sharp rocks.
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