TOPIC: Vintage Sterndrive vs. Outboard Parts Concern

Hello! I am a newbie here. Looks like some great information. Anyhow, I am patiently looking around for a classic 60s-70s vintage fiberglass boat. I have seen a number of them for sale, some in good shape and some not.

My first main question is: In looking at these boats, some have Older Outboards and some sterndrives. Out of the two, most have been Mercury sterndrives and about split between Evinrude and Mercury outboards. What power package is typically easier to find parts for when we are talking about this age? Some of the sterndrives I have seen are referred to as "pre-alpha". Last thing I would want to do is ruin a trim ram or clutch and not be able to find parts for repair. Same on outboards. Anyway I have no experience with older boats but for now parts availability is my biggest concern. So to close, what is the opinion of vintage Sterndrive vs. Outboard for parts availability? Are there any outfits that specialize in parts for either?

Thanks!
Jason

Welcome to the site and forum. To address your concerns, I'll offer a little free advice. (Worth twice what you pay for it.)

I'd stay away from pre-Alpha stern drives but the Alpha One's are fine and parts are readily available but of course, not cheap. A "parts boat" with the same engine/outdrive would be a good investment. You can generally pick one up an ugly one for the cost of a propeller...which you'll get with a parts boat, not to mention all kinds of other goodies that you may need someday that would cost you a fortune on a retail basis: pumps, manifolds, carburetor, linkages, gauges, etc.

"A man without a parts boat spends most of his time wishing he had one." You may quote me.

I own both.
Owned it the key word. I am 6'6" tall and never liked working on the stem drive

(1) my size makes it hard to work on a SD
(2) another hole in the boat BELOW the water line with a SD
(3) changing oil (Both) a pain with a SD
(4)seems always when I got time to work on the thing it was too hot, too cold, and or raining.(outboard I can pull off and work on in my shop
(5) outboard sale were about 10 to 1 over stem drive so parts are out there and cheaper.
(6) with a outboard if it Cr*ps all the way out I can kick it off and start with another one
(7) outboards do not take up room in the boat that can be use for storage

These are my thoughts; like them or not

I'm only 5'11'', but working on an I/O engine is not friendly to my back. Most of the common parts are shin to thigh height, IF you can get to them, some parts are a contortionists job. Outboard motors on the boat are almost literally at chest to eye height, and a trailer tongue jack makes it a comfy barstool height. As TT pointed out, outboards were easily outselling I/O's, and many of the common motor parts are still available. Spare parts outboards are out there, but vintage I/O lower units and parts may require more searching. That said, it would depend on what YOU want. If a certain boat floats your fancy, extra effort may make the end result sweeter.

Jason, I agree with the last two. I've had a number of I/O's and outboards. I/O's are a PTIA for maintenance, expensive if you don't do your own. Straight shaft inboards are easier but now you're talking transmission, external cooling blah blah. Older outboards are easier to get parts for, easier to maintain, and more convenient. No winterizing if you don't want to. I/O's need notorious winterizing. Can't tell you how many are found dirt cheap because of cracked blocks and manifolds from freezing water. They ain't cheap to replace either. Mercs and OMC (Evinrude/Johnson) are first choices. Chrysler parts are getting harder to come by and more expensive. Mercs usually require special tools for repairs and maintenance but there are fellas here with expert knowledge that will take you through every step without fail. My own choice that I prefer are older OMCs. A standard tool set, 8" adjustable wrench, and a screwdriver will get you just about anywhere you need to be on these babies.
IMHO
Cal

I guess I'll jump back in here....

I think sterndrives are a giant pain in the butt which is why I prefer INBOARDS! They, too, can be pulled out and replaced easily. The only real advantage to a stern drive that I can see is turning radius. I just don't see the sense in designing a drive that needs to make two 90-degree bends, requires a hydraulic pump to lift it out of the way and has about a zillion things that can go wrong that will cost a fortune to fix. They also have the disadvantage of taking up all the space in the stern (no rear seat) and requiring a midget to wiggle down in there to fix/adjust or just diagnose. When (not if) the bellows goes bad, your boat sinks. The "logic" of stern drives escapes me.

Outboards and inboards keep things simple...more time out on the water, more money in your pocket and a hell of a lot less mental anguish.

I have often thought that five minutes with an outdrive and a sledge hammer would be more therapeutic than years of psychiatric analysis.

I've had a lot of boats over the years, and all OB's. I did have one I/O and such a PITA I couldn't wait to unload it, and took a loss but worth the no more headaches. Did new carb, manifolds/risers, alt, both raw and circ pumps, and a back breaker to work on. Even changing the damn oil was a chore. No more for me!

Thanks for all the replies so far! I should have mentioned I already have a good bit of experience working on both as I have a twin I/O cruiser and a Center Console with an Outboard. So I kind of know what i am in for there. Both of those boats are less than 15 years old though so my main concern about a vintage boat centered around availability of parts. So far it sounds like so far the Outboard is going to be the best choice for parts availability. I had my eye on a small runabout with an early Merc I/O but just worried I won't be able to repair it.

Any further comments are appreciated as well. I will say I am partial to the older outboards anyway. They just plain look cool.

I'm curious about the differences between pre-Alpha stern drives and the Alpha?

Thanks,
Terry

I would not worry about Mercruiser outdrive parts as the late 60s and 70s outdrives are all over Craigs. The gears in the bullet are all the same,the gears in the upper half are different depending on 4-6-8 cylinder engine.So if the lower end is crapped out you can replace it with just about any Mercruiser lower end out there from the same era.Dont let the drive system get in your way if you really want the boat.If the engine is set up correctly your maintence should be minimal on a I/O for years. Retrofit points with electronic ignition and hook up oil drain hose to pan so you can empty it through the drain hole in the hull.Those two fixes takes care of 99% of the PITA problems that people on here have mentioned.I have a 91 and 79 Mercruiser I/O and a 78 rebuilt Merc 1500 along with a 90 and I feel like the I/Os are more reliable when out in the middle of the lake and you wonder if the bitch is going to start and take you back to port after sitting/fishing for a while.

From what I've found, my '75 165hp mercruiser is easier to find parts for than my '62 johnson 75hp v-4.

jason78,

WELCOME ABOARD.

ImVho, a Mercury or Volvo-Penta SD of any vintage is NO more difficult to get parts for than any Mercury OB.
(Otoh, I wouldn't buy a OMC "stringer" O/D equipped boat for ANY price, including FREE.)

just my OPINION (I am NOT an expert!!!)
yours, satx

Terrydi wrote:

I'm curious about the differences between pre-Alpha stern drives and the Alpha?

Thanks,
Terry

1967 and later #1 drives evolved into the Alpha gen 1 as follows:
1967 drive identified as 120/160
1968-1969 identified as 120/140/160
1970 identified as 120/140/165. At this time, the following changes were made: 10 spline drive shaft changed to 13 spline. Prop shaft bearing carrier was lengthened and prop shaft thrust hub area changed from square shoulder to tapered shoulder. Prop shaft threads changed from course to fine, trim lines moved to bottom of transom plate (from side location).

Another running change made was the upper drive shaft and bearing assembly and size of top bearing and so also the top cap bearing recess was changed.

Little else changed until the 1982 120/260 "R" drive with squared edges and lifting hook removed from top cap. Internals were the same.

Late 1983 the "MR" drive was introduced. Had new lower gears, the bearing under the water pump was turned over and a threaded retained kept it in place. Preload pin was removed from top of driveshaft. Nothing in the upper gear case changed. The "MR" was reintroduced as the Alpha 1 in 1985 just after OMC introduced their Cobra drvive.

It is possible to buy a new Alpha Gen 1 and bolt it onto a 1967 120/160 powered boat yet today. Only change is you need to reuse the shorter input shaft from the old drive.

As far as the I/O vs outboard parts discussion;

1967 and later MerCruiser #1 drives are OK for parts and reliability. Earlier #1 drives are a bit problematic. #0 (Renault 60/80/90 HP), #2 and #3 drives are all hard to find parts for.

OMC has a bad reputation but truthfully are not as horrible as rumored. The first few years had pre-shimmed assemblies. They are a bit problematic because of gear and bearing shimming issues. The 2 stoke V4 was a fuel pig and noisy. The V6 was great.

Volvo, I have never owned but the 250/270 and later drives were durable.

I own stern drive, inboards and outboards. I prefer the simplicity of the straight inboard as they are easy to access, I prefer how they perform and manueuver. The stern drives I own are Volvo 270 drives, and when properly maintained, are easy to get parts for still and have been bullet proof on my old Donzi's. I have also owned alot of Mercruisers and one OMC Cobra drive in the past. They all have their pros and cons. Outboards are a great power to weight ratio for specific applications. It all comes down to your application, a good maintenance schedule and what you are comfortable with...
My 02 worth!

jimandros wrote:

Terrydi wrote:

I'm curious about the differences between pre-Alpha stern drives and the Alpha?

Thanks,
Terry

1967 and later #1 drives evolved into the Alpha gen 1 as follows:
1967 drive identified as 120/160
1968-1969 identified as 120/140/160
1970 identified as 120/140/165. At this time, the following changes were made: 10 spline drive shaft changed to 13 spline. Prop shaft bearing carrier was lengthened and prop shaft thrust hub area changed from square shoulder to tapered shoulder. Prop shaft threads changed from course to fine, trim lines moved to bottom of transom plate (from side location).

Another running change made was the upper drive shaft and bearing assembly and size of top bearing and so also the top cap bearing recess was changed.

Little else changed until the 1982 120/260 "R" drive with squared edges and lifting hook removed from top cap. Internals were the same.

Late 1983 the "MR" drive was introduced. Had new lower gears, the bearing under the water pump was turned over and a threaded retained kept it in place. Preload pin was removed from top of driveshaft. Nothing in the upper gear case changed. The "MR" was reintroduced as the Alpha 1 in 1985 just after OMC introduced their Cobra drvive.

It is possible to buy a new Alpha Gen 1 and bolt it onto a 1967 120/160 powered boat yet today. Only change is you need to reuse the shorter input shaft from the old drive.

Hello Jim,

Thanks for the lesson on MerCruiser model designations. What I was not clear on was that pre-Alpha and Alpha applied only to Mercury.

I was aware that Mercury was late getting on board with a stern drive offering following the Volvo Penta success with this new technology. What’s interesting is that the Volvo Penta debut of the AQ80 in 1959 was based on a design by Charlie Strang who at that time was chief engineer at Mercury.

Charlie showed Mercury President Carl Kiekhaefer his ideas for the stern drive in 1951. According to Charlie, Kiekhaefer responded:
“That is a horse shit idea! Now, if you took the engine and you stood it on end and put it on top of the gear box, you’d have an outboard motor. Then you got the right touch!”

Years later Jim Wynne, who was also an engineer at Mercury, and Strang planned to leave and start a company to build stern drives. Charlie backed out at the 11th hour but gave Jim his blessing to take the idea and run with. Wynne left Mercury and developed a prototype and his design was awarded a patent. He took it to Sweden and Volvo Penta was licensed to manufacture what was labeled the Aquamatic Stern Drive.

Jim Wynne demonstrating the manual tilt function.


And it's a matter of fact that it is Charlie Strang we can thank for our coveted “Tower of Power”.


Charlie cut one cylinder off of two 4-cylinder blocks and welded them together. He then welded three 2-cylinder cranks together and with an ignition system made up of automotive parts he put it all together and ran it.

Another interesting fact here is that this was all done behind Carl Kiekhaefer’s back. Charlie’s directive was to work on nothing but the Kiekhaefer Mercury race cars which at the time was Carl’s priority for the company.


As seen here they were very successful and it has been said it was Kiekhaefer's participation in the sport that helped elevate stock car racing to a more professional status.


As a result of the emphasis on the race cars much of the work on the six cylinder outboard motor was done after hours in secret. When they finally finished it and put it on a boat they showed it to Carl. He took one run up and down the river and came back and said, “It speaks with authority. Let’s build it”

Nine months later in 1957 Mercury Kiekhaefer delivered the Mark 75. And this 60 HP motor was the most powerful production motor ever manufactured. Thank you Charlie!



Thanks,
Terry

I’ve told this story to friends but never put it in writing to be told to the masses.

I feel fortunate to have had the honor to meet Charlie Strang on two separate occasions. Both meetings were pure happenstance; just being in the right place at the right time.

The 2004 Geneva Lakes Boat Show had as guest speaker Fred Kiekhaefer, the son of Mercury founder Carl Kiekhaefer, at the Awards Banquet. Fred at that time was President of Mercury Marine Corporation and he gave a fascinating presentation on the company’s present day endeavors. He also treated us to stories from Lake X and of growing up during the glory days of Kiekhaefer Mercury.




Carl and Fred, Father and Son, both legends.

On Friday before the show opened my wife Mary and I were strolling about the harbor and as we passed the launch ramp there was a boat launching sporting an old white Merc. I pointed out to Mary that the motor was similar to the Merc 800 on our ‘Mama Mia!’. She looks at it and she doesn’t know what the hell she’s looking at other than it’s a boat motor and it’s white.

Now there is an older gentleman standing there as well and he chimes in “Oh, You like those old Mercury motors?” I said “Yeah I love these old Mercs, I have a few of them”. The gentleman responds, “Well that’s real nice to hear because I designed that motor” He then introduced himself and it was none other than Charlie Strang. OMG. So Charlie and I get to chatting up old Mercs and after a while Mary pokes me in the ribs and said I should tell him what she had once said about that big old motor on our boat.



Before I finish that story let me tell you this. I did all the restoration work on Mama Mia! out on the driveway in front of our house. I got to a point where she was looking pretty good and I wanted to show off the progress. So that evening I invited Mary aboard and we sat in the boat out on the driveway and enjoyed some adult beverages. Mary commented on how big the old Merc looked and suggested that the design resembled some of her kitchen appliances. Yeah OK I think I can see that too.

So we mention that to Charlie and he says that’s an interesting observation and goes on to tell us how they actually came up with the cowling design for the Mercury Six. He said they had the powerhead fully designed and functional but still needed to design the cowl. They were working on it late one night because during the day all their efforts were focused on the race cars. According to Charlie one of the gals brought them dinner in a Nesco Roasting Oven. They ate their dinner and took a closer look at the modern lines on that kitchen appliance and sure enough the Nesco Roaster was the inspiration for the classic looks of our Kiekhaefer Mercury Outboard Motors.
Right on Mary!



It was the following year again at the Geneva Lakes boat show when I was aboard Mama Mia! talking to a guy about the restored Merc 800 on my boat. I find it interesting when showing our 59
Glasspar Seafair Sedan that the old Merc draws as much attention as the boat itself. But any way I'm still talking about what I thought I knew and mentioned that the 1961 Merc 800 was the largest outboard available at the time and 1962 was the first year for the Merc 1000. I continued to spout my ignorance when I made the statement that the motors were essentially the same other than then the increased displacement from 76 CI to 90 CI.

It was at that moment when I noticed an older gentleman standing there shaking his head. He said “No, the block on the 1000 is 2 inches taller due to the increased bore”

Yeah it was Charlie, I stand corrected.



In 2013 Charlie was in Monaco and was recognized by the Union of International Motorboating (UIM) for fifty-plus years of work in the international boating field.

Thanks,
Terry

Interesting content here:

www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/75years/history/week9


First I/O by Johnson Motor Company in 1930


Glasspar brochures mention an I/O dealer option first in 1962 and as a factory option in 63.

Hi Terry, Great history.
Thanks for posting, Gene

It sounds like he was a hard guy to work for, but wasn't asking anyone to work any harder that he was.
Bill

Sorry. My computer was being slow and I wasn't being patient.
Bill