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TOPIC: Another Electromatic for the forum...
Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #92973
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Got a 1977 Crestliner Nordic 16 with trailer and 1965 75hp Starflite for a great price. The only catch is the electric shift won't shift. Previous owner says he was pulling a tube when the motor jumped and revved up. He quickly backed off, and said it would not go into gear, only neutral. I already read older posts regarding checks to perform, but I have a full plate for a few days. Any thoughts about narrowing down the potential problem based on the P.O.'s description? I have had an electric shift motor before, but had no problems with it, so no experience tearing one down. I'm hoping its not in the gearcase, but I'm not holding my breath, either.
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Re: Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #92985
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Find the 2 wires that go to the lower unit.
Slide the rubber sleeve back and disconnect the green. Turn key to " on " and push forward down. Touch green to green. Do you see a wee spark --yes or no. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #92998
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No sign of spark. However, I went to turn the motor over, nothing!!! Further checking, I found an inline fuse from the ignition switch to the ammeter that had a blown 20 amp fuse. Does this affect my check, and is 20 amp correct? Only have 20 minutes a day to check stuff due to work and a couple much needed house repairs. More time this weekend I hope.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93009
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Fuses always come into the picture.--Replace fuse and try again.---Or do that test directly with jumper wires from a 12 volt battery.-If you see a little spark.----Then see if prop will turn one way and not the other with 12 volts applied to the electromagnet.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93052
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Replaced the fuse, went to try again. Pushed the forward button, heard a little snap- fuse blew. Pushed neutral, replaced fuse, pushed reverse- nothing. Pushed neutral- nothing. Pushed forward- snap. After I get more fuses, I'll try unplugging the gearcase leads and see if it blows another fuse. My limited electrical knowledge says if the fuse doesn't blow, the gearcase may have a short. If the fuse blows, the forward switch is the culprit. What do you think, Professor? Sound right, or am I missing something else?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93067
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It is not uncommon for wires to be pinched and shorted out.
Remove the back lower cowling and have a look.--Seperate the wires going to the lower unit.----Take ohm reading from green to the gear case and from blue to the gearcase.---What are the values ? |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93071
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Could check the shift wire below where it goes into the exhaust housing. I've had one to get burnt in the housing when the protective heat wrap was not pulled up all the way up to the top of the cable inside the exhaust housing. This happened after 40 years use.Also on the back of the powerhead there is a metal clamp that might could have pinched the wires together.I've seen them pinchecd pretty hard at this point.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93128
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Have to put the boat on "hold" for a few days. One of my repairs in the house uncovered another problem, and found out yesterday Saturday is mandatory. I hate second shift, but have no choice until two apprentices are trained. Oh, well.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93319
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The boating Gods hate me!!!!!! High wind advisory (up to 50+mph) then add rain for the next 5 or more days, temps STILL below average until ????, garage too full for the boat. I'm not giving up, but after the seemingly endless winter, this is enough to frustrate even a patient person like me to tears. Professor, I will try the jumper wire to leads when and if the weather cooperates. Pulling the cover and checking the wires is going to have to wait, but burnt wires may be the culprit as P.O. said he replaced the impeller last spring. May have left the wires off the clamp or routed them too close to the exhaust housing. I'll keep you posted....
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93717
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Between the weather gods and the War Dept, I finally got some boat time. I used a jumper wire from the battery to the unplugged leads, Green- small blue spark, prop grabs with fwd rotation. Same with brown wire, reverse direction. Pulled the cover to check the wires, all looks good. Ideas?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 9 months ago #93724
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Kerry, yah, war dept, we all know that story.
Next I would check to see if you have power going to your leads. Turn the ignition on and put a meter or 12 volt light connected to ground and one of the leads and then shift forward or reverse, you should get a reading. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #95771
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One day off, finished to-do's, grabbed more fuses, and checked a few things. With the gearcase leads unhooked at the motor, the fuse still blows when forward is pushed. Neutral and reverse are fine. Guessing the problem is in the boat, so I reconnected the leads. Then I disconnected the shift wire plug coming from the control box and pushed forward. No blown fuse. So then I used a jumper wire from the key switch + to the green lead from the plug to the motor. The fuse blew. Am I correct in thinking that the wire from the plug to the motor has a short, or am I missing something else?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #95773
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yes Kerry, sounds like you have a short. you can trace the wire and see were it is rubbed thru. or the easy way to try is run a separate wire from the motor to the control box. hope this helps. greg
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #95782
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***********
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96182
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Now I'm out of ideas. I ran two new wires to the motor, added a three position switch, new power lead from the ignition switch. Reverse great, neutral great, forward blew the fuse!!! Am I back to the gearcase? Getting frustrated.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96183
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If you blew a fuse checking it at the motor,you've got a short either in the shift cable that runs from the back of the engine or in the lower itself. Have you dropped the lower unit yet? Could be where the cable goes through the exhaust housing.It could also be pinched where the upper housing joins the bullet gearcase itself.And if those check out, you have a damaged wire on the forward electromagnet.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96185
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Kerry, when you ran two wires to the motor where did you connect them to? Directly from a + source to the green or blue wires and the shifter works, correct?
So we know the lower unit itself is not the problem. That narrows it down to just a few possibilities. For testing I would take the fuse out of the equation because you know it is doing it's job. 1. The plug connector on the engine, not the shift wire splices but the actual plug on the motor that the harness plugs into. There is a lot of action in this area, twisting, turning back and forth etc. Looking back at your original post the PO said it happened while running pulling a skier or something. Maybe making a sharp turn to jump a wake. Instead of blowing fuses just get a simple cheap ohm/volt meter and do basic wire tracing. With an ohm meter and all connectors in place except the blue green leads, and the battery disconnected ground one lead of the meter to the engine block check the shift wires on inside of the motor area. no reading you're good, if you get a reading there is a short somewhere, now just keep going backwards to the shifter and any other connectors. Take a deep breath, it's really a simple on/off switch. 
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96190
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Cal,I don't believe that's the right wiring diagram for a 1965 75 hp evinrude v-4. It's showing three coils for three plugs. Kerry if you run power directly to the green wire behind the powerhead and cannot get forward to lock the prop,that is where your problem starts from there to the gearcase somewhere along that line.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96191
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I ran a power lead from the ignition switch ON to a toggle switch, separate, new wires to the lower unit leads at the back of the motor, going down the leg. By the way, after reconnecting the original wires, I disconnected the same leads, pushed Forward, the fuse blew. I suspected the control switches, but my "bypass" didn't confirm it. I thought ignition switch, but why only when I push Forward? Everything I try to narrow down or bypass fails to identify anything bad. I'll try the multimeter next. BTW, I have an original 1965 Johnson dealer repair manual with the wiring diagram. Thanks for posting yours, tho.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96203
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Jim, didn't mean that to be an exact schematic, only and illustration for the connectors.
Kerry, might be right in the unit itself. I've found wires that old have a tendency to shed their rubber insulation, kinda crumbles and just falls apart. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96217
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Yeah, I've seen wiring disasters, not pretty. But if the gearcase is suspect, why would it blow the fuse when the leads at the motor are disconnected?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96223
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Sorry, I meant the shifter unit not the lower end. Do you have the button type shift or the lever/shift-speed type?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96239
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Kerry wrote:
Kerry,if it blew a fuse after you did all this, you have a problem in your lower unit(gearcase) or the cable going down to it behind the powerhead. If it also blew a fuse when you had the wires unhooked at the powerhead,could the end of the (green) forward wire have been touching some metal on the engine and grounded out? |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96267
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63, its a pushbutton Evinrude control. Jim, I was careful to set the leads so they would not touch. Guess its time to pull the lower unit to check the wires, unless there is a way to check or test first.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96280
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The pushbuttons are sorta notorious for going kaput. If you google selectric problems a bunch of issues show up, even a youtube video on how to hook up toggle switches for the shifter. I have on my shelf a complete push button unit that someone trashed after stealing the button setup. All wires are intact with the ignition and choke switches still connected but the button wires snipped.
A way to test your lower unit before you decide to pull it apart is to take a 12 volt battery, ground it to the motor case and touch the + separately to the green and blue wires leading to the bullet. Completely ignore the rest of the wiring system. If it shifts I would not pull the unit apart. If you get some serious sparking you know for sure there is a short down under. The problem just might be the buttons hopefully. good luck |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96295
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Kerry, if it turns out you need an old '65 evinrude starflite wiring harness, I might be able to fix you up. jim
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 8 months ago #96309
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63, earlier post I noted a jumper wire from the battery to the unplugged leads got small sparking and prop grabbing. (Thanks, professor) but later post I tried a lead from the battery positive to a 20 amp fused lead to a 3 position switch, bypassing the wiring harness, and forward still blew the fuse. I'll try checking the gearcase with a multimeter this weekend. Jim, thanks for the offer, I'm hoping I won't need it, but I will keep it in mind. Thanks to all.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96412
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Went outside between rain showers and disconnected leads to the gearcase. Ohms at reverse lead 1.7. Ohms at forward lead 8.1.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96459
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Does it blow fuses with the leads disconnected?
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96483
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Kerry wrote:
Kerry, my service manual says the meter should read from 4.5 to 6.5 ohms for either forward or reverse. Book says coil could be shorted. IMHO,I feel you need to take your lower unit apart to see what the problem is. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96502
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jimandros wrote:
Yes. That's why I tried the fused switch direct from the battery to the leads. Thought it was the wiring harness, but that setup blew a fuse also. Unfortunate, but I'm believing that the gearcase is the culprit. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96543
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The ebay item id given is invalid, no result has been sent
 +Kerry, I've only taken two of those lowers apart and for me it wasn't fun. The large "C" rings were the hardest because I didn't have the proper remover. Good news is that there are many of the parts available on EBay and fairly reasonable prices. Check out this listing. Good Luck, Cal |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96549
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Yeah, I'd rather do anything with the powerhead, or a standard shift gearcase, than an Electromatic. In case you guys haven't noticed, wiring is NOT my thing. Small motor magneto ignition is about my electrical limit. Wiring in a jackplate or bilge pump is done VERY carefully!!! Installing them is gravy.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96573
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They are actually simple. The power leads go thru a grommet into the gear case. Incorrect oil or water can cause issues, but in your case, I'm going with s shorted harness.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96598
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jimandros wrote:
Interesting... after reading your post I remembered the Electromatics used different gear lube. Wondering if the PO knew. I haven't checked, as I thought I had an electrical issue. Do you happen to know the symptoms of using regular gear lube? |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96653
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They will shift just fine with regular gear lube.--Note I said shift just fine.
The thinner oil ( type -c ) needs to be aqueezed out when the spring winds itself onto the drum.----So it is a long term issue if wrong oil is used.--May shorten the life of spring and drum.---It will shift just fine with regular lube. |
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96665
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Thanks, Professor. Just trying to cover all I can so I don't spend a lot of time fixing something that isn't broken. Jumper wire from battery + to leads, prop grabs. Bypass shift buttons, fuse goes. New 20 amp fused lead to new 3 position toggle switch to new wires to motor leads, fuse goes. Still suspect gearcase, but it functions fine with the jumper wire test. If something in the gearcase was grounding and creating a short to blow the fuse, wouldn't that prevent the proper function with the jumper wire test? And if the harness is suspect, why didn't the new switch and wires work? Too confusing, I'd rather swing a wrench than troubleshoot electrical things. If I hadn't got a smoking good deal on the package, I wouldn't be trying to fix this beast, but something about it has me hooked to fix it.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96676
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Remove the lower unit / inspect wiring and test the shifting wih just the lower unit.----That would bypass everything on the boat and wiring harness.
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Re:Another Electromatic for the forum... 11 years 7 months ago #96937
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I'm officially a dummy today. Lesson learned? NEVER FORGET THE BASICS!!!!!!!! Pulled the gear lube drain plugs and what came out was black, gritty, and closer to water than oil in viscosity! I usually keep a few tubes of gear lube on hand, so I added one and spun the prop to circulate it a bit. After a few minutes of spinning, I drained the oil(?) out. It was more grayish black this time, and not as gritty. Used the other two tubes to fill the case and spun the prop a bit until the mosquitos became unbearable. I will be getting more gear lube and fuses to see if the yuck was the cause of my woes. New seals will be ordered irregardless.
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