TOPIC: 1968 Evinrude v4 65hp Question

If I replace my 1959 Evinrude Fat Fifty with a 1968 v4 65hp will I get any better gas mileage or that much more power/speed? There's one available close to me for $180 with the controls.

I'm thinking of putting it on my 1960 Wagemaker Clipper.

Any thoughts?

thanks,
Bob

Bob,

The 1968 engine will have a little more kick, and it should be a bit better on the fuel consumption. I don't think it will be dramatic, but there will be an improvement. The old fatty can be upgraded simply by replacing the entire reed block & plate assembly. This is not a big deal at all, & if it were here, I'd swap it out for you in 1/2 hour. The 1960 and later V4s from 60 HP through 85 HP all used the same improved reed blocks & plate. They can be removed from a blown engine & installed in your 50. Looks exactly the same as stock on the outside. I believe I have nice one in the shop that I'll sell for 20 bucks. Another big improvement is to find a pair of cylinder heads from 60 or 65 HP engine. The Gale V4 60 used the improved heads too. These heads have a full water jacket over the combustion chamber for better cooling, and the combustion chamber is contoured to the shape of the piston crown. This means higher compression & less wasted raw fuel out the exhaust. Have a set milled down 0.125" and the engine will run even better - perhaps making more than 65HP. I did this to a Fat 50 and it ran beautifully season after season. No problem with pre-ignition or overheating with the milled heads. The stock compression was so horribly low that low grade gas is fine, even with the modified heads. The boat could run within 3 to 5 MPH of a Starflite 75 - so I'm sure it was making near 70 hp.

The price of the 68 engine you are looking at is good, as long as the CDI pack (if it uses one) isn't blown. A replacement CDI is something like $ 350.00

Bruce,
Thanks for the info. If it isn't going to be that much better gas milage wise I think I'll just mod my Fatty and keep it true to the boat so to speak. I'll have to keep a look out on the east coast here for the heads. If you do in fact have that reed valve and plate I'll buy them from you. Just let me know how you want to do it.

I'm not sure on the 65hp. The ad says it will turn over but that's it. I'm assuming it's an electric shift. Don't know when it was run last etc.

Thanks,
Bob

I do really like the idea of being able to modify the fat 50 to run better and more economical. A question I have is what about the 3 cyl. engines? My Dad has a '68 Johnson V4 in 65hp without electric shift and it behaves real nice. But he has the chance to get a '72 3cyl. 65hp with electric shift. Assuming all is working as it should, would this be a worthwhile swap? Would it perform even better and get better fuel mileage?

Bob, glad to hear you're keeping the Fat50, I don't think the little difference in the two motors would be worth the sacrifice. Bruce and several others know how to help you get her singing properly, I believe you'll be happier in the long run.

Dave, the 3cyl 65 may get better gas mileage, but you're going to loose a bunch of torque, IMO. (ie: No the performance won't get better!) Even though the V4's do use more fuel, I think they run smoother, and I don't think anyone will argue the point on the buttloads of torque they produce.
I know there are a couple guys on here who like the electric shift models, but they "scare" me. I believe the 3cyl also uses the smaller gearcase, for what it's worth.

Just my two cents.......

I agree on the electric shifts. Just to much can go wrong with them and they cost for parts
Now I have 77 3 cyc 75hp Johnson and took it on a 30 mile run and when the old 35 and 40hp ran out of gas on the last leg I still had a half gal of gas left at the dock. Everybody was useing 6gal tanks. So figure out the mileage. Some WOT on the run and some slow.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Bob, let me sift through the treasure pile over the next few days - I know I have at least a couple of these. I believe you can PM a note to me with your contact info.

And Dave - regarding the Triumph 65... If looks & originality aren't a consideration, I'd change over to the tripple in an instant. Mark is correct about the low end torque not being what the V4 had, but it has way beter top end, and I think you'd be very happy with it if it is propped correctly. The Triumph was loop charged and vastly advanced from the old V4 design. The lower unit was also a vast improvement, and you can still get awesome stainless steel props for these engines to this day. It is also a lighter engine. Best of all, it will get over twice the economy of the V4. I personally like the electric shift -as long as they are kept sealed from water, and you use the correct type "C" oil they are wonderful. I have had more problems with worn clutches and broken shift forks on vintage mechanical shift lowers. No disrespect to the others opinions on here at all - we all have our own takes on things, and we all have had our good & bad experiences with different engines.

This is a great forum with lots of good ideas and help. Thanks to everyone who chimes in.

Bruce

Yes, thanks to all the great folks who contribute!

Bruce, you have mail.

What's the going rate for a set of heads form a 60 or 65Hp Rude? I assume they change per geographic area? Should I just get that 65hp for $180 and part it out?

Bob

Ya know, Bob - getting the '68 might be a good move. If the powerhead is in nice shape with compression of at least 80 lbs per cylinder. It it were my choice, I'd buy the '68, pull the entire powerhead, paint it to match the powerhead color of the Fat Fifty and swap out the entire powerhead. You won't harm the value of the engine really, unless you want to sell it to a staunch purist. That would give you a better engine. It will bolt right onto the flange. Either that, or rob the engine for the parts you need.

The cylinder heads go for as little as free to over 100 bucks each. Look around, and you should be able to eventually locate a nice set for around 50 bucks/pair. Get all the part numbers you need & check eBay often. You'll need head gaskets, and it would be a good idea to get the water jacket cover gaskets used on the later heads as well. The covers should be removed from the heads to be sure there is no crud blocking the water pasages.

Bruce,
Roger that. Please go ahead and keep looking in your treasure pile. I'd like to improve the Fatty either way. I'll give the guy a call about the 65hp. Maybe I can talk him down some since it doesn't run.

Thanks
Bob

Bob,

I found my box of 75 Hp reed plates today & pulled the nicest one for you.

Here are some installation tips - I'll also post these over on JEGO for the benefit of others.

The gasket that seals the reed plate to the crankcase is still useable. If you want to replace it, that's fine - but there is no need.

The gasket that goes from the intake manifold to the front side of the reed plate is gone. You will need to get one unless you can preserve the one that is currently on your engine.

I like to use the "old school" Permatex aviation sealer that's been around for 50 years or more. This is the brown goopy stuff that comes in a little metal tube. It is sold everywhere, is cheap, and it does not harden. A little goes a long way, just a thin film is all that is needed.

The reeds and plate should not be disturbed - do not take them apart. Do not push on the reeds with your fingers, or any other object. If you want, you can flush them out with some ChemTool carb spray & let them air dry. DO NOT blow them out with an air hose.


Here we go -

Remove the large slotted screw, spacers and washers from the throttle cam that is attached to the carburator. Observe the order of the parts. Detach the throttle cam from the carburator by swinging the throttle cam and rod out & away from the carburator. replaceplace the screw and washers on the carb for safekeeping.

Remove the wire from the electric choke solenoid & move the wire aside

Remove the fuel pump. If the lines attached to the pump are supple, they may allow the pump to move out of the way enough so they don't need to be removed from the pump. Check all lines for cracking - if in doubt, replace them.

Loosen all of the intake manifold bolts & back them out slightly. (1/4" or a little less)
If the intake manifold does not start to drop away from the block, place a wood block against the carburator (where it will not damage exposed parts) and give a couple smacks with a hammer. Don't get carried away. The manifold should pop loose, unless you have missed a bolt, or someone has previously used silicone on the gasket. The goal here is to pop the manifold loose without ruining the gasket, otherwise you will have to replace it.

Remove the previously loosened manifold bolts & carefully move the manifold and carburator assembly to the side.

At this point, you should be looking at the front side of the reed plate assembly, unless it came off with the manifold. Place a sharp edge of a wood block against the outside edge of the reed plate where it meets the engine block. Give it a sharp blow with a hammer to loosen it. Remove the old reed assembly. Check the crank case flange for any old gasket or sealer & clean it. Smear a light film of Permatex on the mating surface of the crank case & place the new reed assembly into the intake cavity. If the original intake manifold gasket looks OK, smear a light film of Permatex on the mating surfaces and re attach the intake manifold and carb assy. DO NOT over tighten the manifold bolts.

Re assemble the engine parts in the reverse of the above. Test run engine.

Have fun!


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce,
Thank you very much! Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, didn't get to the computer last night. I appreciate all the help. Can't thank you enough.

Bob

Well, got a pair of 60hp heads on Ebay last night for $29.99 plus shipping. Got shipped out today, so the e-mail says. Now just have to get them milled down when they get here. I'll also have to check marineengines.com and see if they have the gaskets for head and water jacket. I do have a question though:
1. Should I think about rebuilding the engine before I just put the new heads on and go?
2. The last compression check, after the few times I had it out, is now 90 for all four. Should It be higher?

Bob