TOPIC: Two-stroke oil recs: '60 Johnson 75hp

Had my pump and impeller changed and lower unit oil. The mechanic, who says he's the only one there that works on the old engines, and who loved the boat and the motor, and who reported the same thing I did, which is that the engine just purrs...recommends Evinrude-Johnson XD-30 2-stroke oil. XD-50 -- which apparently has some synthetic in it -- would be OK, too, but not necessary; and, XD-100 is definitely not needed.

I'm gonna contact the past owner to see what he used b/c I'm an "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" kinda guy, and whatever's been used in this engine for all these years has been correct.

The orig Johnson gas tank says 1qt SAE 30 per 6 gals. For my primary test cruise I used whatever 30wt two-stroke engine oil I found at the local O-Reilly's auto parts store looked most appropriate, and it ran perfectly and with no smoke. So, I'm a bit reluctant to do anything different.

But, obviously, I'm interested in what the collective wisdom is here at JEGO.

Won't have time this weekend, but will take her out next weekend for the real shake-down cruise, so I'll be mixing up 15 gallons or so.

Thanks, Gentlemen!

Paul
Long Beach, CA

I would use a high quality 2 stroke oil with a TCW3 rating, what the mechanic is recommending sounds good.

Really good 2 stroke oils didn't exsist when this motor was built. In my mind, using 30wt. is the worst thing you can do.

There are many arguments about how much oil. I usually never go more than 40:1, or one pint for 5 gallons, but I have old Mercs. Merc mechanics all say 50:1 on the old ones is just fine, which is thinner or 1 pint to 6 gallons. I had a 1958 Evinrude Lark that ran fine on 40:1, but never had a fat four. I would suspect that 40 or even 50:1 would be just fine but will defer to the OMC experts which I am not. If you use 30wt, and I wouldn't, go by what is recommended.

I know a couple people with motors identical to yours and your right. They are really nice motors. One took the cowling off an original 50 hp fat four and put it on his 75hp. Love the fake exhaust pipes coming out of it.

I Agree that SAE30 is not the best choice, it was only recommended as there was nothing else available at the time. A TCW3 rated oil from any respectable source is fine, these motors aren't picky. Personally I've fed my 50's motors Canadian tire brand, walmart brand, Shell, and some old stock Johnson oil and they where happy with any of it. As for the mix I always run the original factory spec which for your motor is 24:1 oil not so expensive, parts and the time to put it back together expensive and frustrating!

Thanks to both of you for the replies. I hadn't even given a thought to how the ratio might change if I change the type of oil. Duh!

I have now also read elsewhere that the TCW3 is the way to go, so that sounds right.

So, the original spec is 1 qt 30 wt oil to 6 gal of (leaded, I suppose) gasoline -- "Fill 'er up with Ethyl!"

Then, should I stick with the ratio of 1 qt (of TCW3) to 6 gal of (unleaded) gasoline?

I'm probably over-thinking this, given the happiness of the engine right now, but honestly I'd like to use the least amount of oil possible b/c so much of it is spewing into the environment through the exhaust. I feel like the Valdez, fer cryin out loud.

So, do you suppose it's safe, using the newer TCW3, to lean out the mixture a bit and see how she runs? What will I notice if I've not put enough oil in the gasoline?

Yep 1 quart of tcw3 to 6 gal of unleaded ethanol free fuel, check www.pure-gas.org for a station near you that pumps the good stuff
Al

Ouch. All the stations listed that I could reasonably drive to no longer offer ethanol-free.

Interesting observation: Johnson vs. Evinrude:

I got 5 vintage 6 gallon tanks along with my Glass Magic. One is an orig Johnson tank and another is an Evinrude tank, which appears to be of the same vintage (I couldn't see any date stamp.)

The Johnson tank calls for 1 qt 30 wt to 6 gallons regular gas (which mirrors what is printed on the actual engine.)

The Evinrude tank calls for 1 pint of "Evinrude lubricant" per 6 gallons.

That seems very strange to me, given that these engines are allegedly similar.

Do any of you Evinrude guys have the original instructions for your engines?

Paul

Just my 2 cents worth. My '58 Johnson 35hp I mix `1 qt tcw3 with the six gallon plastic tank. Hardly any smoke and nearly a drip of carbon goo from the exhaust. Makes me happy.
My '67 100hp Johnson golden meteor I run 50:1, half qt of tcw3 to six gallons. Like the man sez, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Don't mix according to the gas tank, mix for the motor. Quality oils and synthetics will smoke less, and some synthetics are biodegradable (Pennzoil full synthetic, for one) so you would feel a bit better knowing you are not mimicking the Exxon Valdez.

I didn't realize the full syns might be biodegradeable. So much to learn. Yesterday, I picked up a couple of quarts of Lucas Oil semi-syn TC-W3, so I'll be going with that next time out. $7.79/qt. I'll be looking to compare Pennzoil and maybe some others in the future.

Thank you, Gentlemen!

GlassPaul wrote:

Interesting observation: Johnson vs. Evinrude:

I got 5 vintage 6 gallon tanks along with my Glass Magic. One is an orig Johnson tank and another is an Evinrude tank, which appears to be of the same vintage (I couldn't see any date stamp.)

The Johnson tank calls for 1 qt 30 wt to 6 gallons regular gas (which mirrors what is printed on the actual engine.)

The Evinrude tank calls for 1 pint of "Evinrude lubricant" per 6 gallons.

That seems very strange to me, given that these engines are allegedly similar.

Do any of you Evinrude guys have the original instructions for your engines?

Paul

Paul, just in case you don't know, Johnson and Evinrude have been nearly identical since the mid 50's, some models even before that. Evinrude (OMC) bought Johnson in the late thirties. The cowlings sometimes look different and they are different colors but under the hood, they are usually identical. The difference in the recommendation on the tanks has to do with the age of the tanks rather than Johnson or Evinrude. If they are the same year, they would usually recommend the same mix.

Also another FYI, Gale was another brand made by OMC. Gale also made motors for third parties, like Montgomery Ward. These motors are very similar, but usually not completely identical, to the same year Johnson and Evinrudes. Sometimes they still used some technology that the prime models had already moved past, so sometimes older J&E parts work in newer Gale built motors. OMC closed the Gale plant in 1964.

It seems like I have to preach my perspective on this every year or so.

ALL of the V4 OMC engines from 1958 forward are full needle and ball bearing. This means that they run on a 50:1 oil to fuel ratio when using modern 2 cycle oils ( TCW ) for marine engines.

Starting in 1964 - OMC recommended that ALL V4 ENGINES WERE TO BE RUN ON OMC 50:1 outboard motor lubricant. This is the year that 50:1 outboard motor oils became available. The change also applied to motors built before 1964. If you use a modern TCW3 oil (which you should) you mix it at 50:1.


The specification has been this way since 1964 - yet many people still think more oil is better. IT IS NOT!

The extra oil will produce excess carbon in the engine, ultimately jacking the piston rings into the cylinder bores and destroying the engine. Too much oil is NOT A GOOD THING in these motors

I'm sorry for the rant - really I am. But I just can't help becoming fired up when this subject rears it's head.

So, V4's 65 and newer 50:1. I have been running my '63 Johnson 40 hp at 40:1 with cheaper Pensoil Marine ( could not get Amsoil 100:1 sabre around here). When I can get the Amsoil I run 50:1. What do you recommend for 1960- 1963 Johnson big twin 40hp?

"ALL of the V4 OMC engines from 1958 forward are full needle and ball bearing. This means that they run on a 50:1 oil to fuel ratio when using modern 2 cycle oils ( TCW ) for marine engines."

Wow. 1 qt/6 gallons looks like 24:1, if I'm doing the math right. That means 1 pt/6 gallons = 48:1, which is much closer to your number, Bruce.

Just to double check, what should I look for if I go with the 48:1, and the engine doesn't like it? It sure seems to make sense to me with all the oil coming out of the exhaust -- prolly have twice the oil the engine wants.

Thanks,

Paul

Bruce, I think you need to put a sticky at the top of this forum because a lot of people don't know about the bearings. Maybe enough folks start running 50:1 in these old engines, they wouldn't have the NASTY rep they have. Just my 2 cents

Everyone that runs a 2 cycle that burns pre-mix should own at least one 2 cycle Oil Mix bottle. I think I have about 5 of them. It is a good idea to have one with the boat at all times it is in use, or in transit. This way, if you need to pick up fuel - the bottle is handy. The bottles have tables printed on them that correspond to mix ratios for a given amount of fuel. The bottles usually have tables for 24:1 up through 100:1 Just fill the bottle with oil up to the mark that shows the number of gallons of fuel it is to be mixed into. Dump the measured oil into the tank and add the fuel. It is almost a no brainer. Also, if you have a partial tank, and want to top it off - just wait until you have added the gas to add the oil. For example: I top off a tank that needed 2 gallons to bring it up to full. I then take the mix bottle and pour in oil to the mark at 2 gallons on the 50:1 scale. Doing this will keep an accurate mix in the tank, even if you decide to top it off after using some from the last outing. Please be advised that you should NEVER TOP OFF A TANK WITH STRAIGHT FUEL. Enough capacity must be remaining in the tank to hold the oil that you need to dump in. This is easy to forget. Some tanks will hold a full 6 gallons of straight fuel and still have enough room to put oil in with the gas. But some tanks don't have the necessary room. Become familiar with the routine and it will become pretty easy for you.

Also - always remove the portable tank from your vehicle or boat when filling it up. Set the tank on concrete, asphalt, dirt, etc. A tank that is not sitting on the ground can build up static electricity and cause an explosion and or fire.

The bottles are cheap - buy a couple of them. You can get them at Wally, and lots of other places.

www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Marine-Oil-Mixing-Bottle/dp/B004UOV79K/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1438401066&sr=8-12&keywords=2+stroke+Oil+Fuel+Mixing+Bottle

Good plan Bruce. A different situation that raises it's ugly head is an onboard tank. When I built my Shell Lake I installed a 12 gallon tank. Problem is that the fuel gauge is not accurate and refueling at a gas station is "iffy" at least. The solution is to use a portable gas can, like you would have for lawn mowers etc. and mix the fuel in that then fill up the boat system with that.
A bit of a hassle but at least you know what mix you are filling up with.

I have a 15 gallon tank in my 58 Vabond. I just top up the tank with fuel and leave an inch or so as room for the oil. I touch the gas nozzle to the side of the boat before I do any pumping and then to the unopened tank before any pumping to discharge any static.

Let's not overlook the fact that these motors can easily be modded to capture the fuel that is dumped into the skek and then into the water.

Another though on mix ratio. Depends on how you are running the motor. I've you're doing wide open running for long periods of time look into what the racers do with mix ratios. If you doing a lot of slow speed trolling fishing take that in mind.