TOPIC: Help Tuning my Flying Scott 60

Wow, deja vu. Your right where I'm at. My starter's bendix is hanging up. So, if I try to start it, it might cause a lot of damage. However, I took the points and condensor to my local auto parts store and had them match it up. They actually had one. The points are for some car, he didn't say which. It's a Bosch. 303 plug sounds good for that motor. I use a 276. However, in my case, the bendix starter that I need has marine applications.

If your motor is only firing on full throttle, your carb idle circuit might be clogged. I'm not familiar with those style of carbs. Did you let the carbs soak real good?

Yes I soaked the carbs. These are an interesting derivative (3008S - can't find the PN any where on the internet) of the ubiquitous Carter N carb (lawn mowers, snow mobiles, etc.) It's a fixed jet design and uses a metering rod that moves vertically with the rotation of a stepped cam. There is an idle adjustment screw. but there's not much to it.

It looks like I might be fouling plugs so I need to make sure I'm getting enough spark.

My dear good man!!!
I recently purchased and original "Wizard" 60 hp manual it has blown up diagrams of how everything comes apart along with the vintage part numbers if you would like I can copy the pages and send them to you? I plan on doing this anyways and adding it to our library on here for all the others. Nearly the only difference between my Wizard and your scott is the cowling

Right on! I have a copy of the Scott Outboard Service Manual 1960 and would be lost without it but... there are quite a few PNs I haven't found. Points, Condenser, Cap, Rotor.

I think these are the correct points:


UPDATE
Plugs: Champion J6JM, Autolite 303
Points: Niehoff SE-332B-135, Intermotor MA346
Condenser: Neihoff DR24, BWD G120A
Plug Wires: Accel 4039

I pulled the whole distributor and went on the hunt for points and a condenser. No luck but I did discover carbon brush spring in the distributor cap was too low and not making contact with the rotor.

I had to drill a hole through the coil wire pocket in the distributor cap to pushed out the carbon brush. The spring was rusted and broken. I fished out the parts and found a correct diameter spring that I cut down to fit and I put it all back together.

The motor definitely started easier. But I've got exhaust pouring out of the busted screw so I need to fix that before I proceed.

well according to my parts book it says the PN for the condenser is a 332B-115 ill look around tomorrow to see what I can scrounge up I also need to replace all my ignition components I cleaned my cap as good as possible but would still like to have another spare on hand. The cap PN is 332-255 the rotor PN is 332-256 and the points number is 332b-135 keep in mind these are all the original numbers I will see if I can find some new numbers like I said tomorrow
Sincerely Chance

Thanks for the PN's!

I ordered points here...
http://onlinestore.ahlstrand-marine.com/antiqueparts/Niehoff%20Points%20Outboard/niehoff-outboard-motor-points.html

And a condenser here...
http://stores.ebay.com/aplussmallenginesparts

Thesse are both NOS parts so they will give me a good bench mark.

I started scanning my manual I'm on page 28 of ~130 I'll send it to the Mod's when I'm done.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! And yep I am just starting to scan my book. Hopefully others will find it as useful!!

I got them all scanned where do I submit them at though :/ ??

PM one of the moderators (you will see their names at the bottom). I'm sure they have a process they like to follow.

Chance wrote:

I got them all scanned where do I submit them at though :/ ??

You can post them in the Library Additions section, or send a PM to Handy Andy (He's the main Editor of the Library.)

Thanks for your contribution, I'm sure many others will benefit from your generosity!

I'm getting closer. I took the Dorsett down to the back bay today and launched her. She fired up and idled smoothly. I put her in reverse spun her around put her into gear and motored away (under 5 mph). When I was claer of the launch area I powered her up and she just bogged down and died. She restarted and in neutral I revved her to 2500 and back down to idle and put her in gear only to have her bog down each time I accelerated. I restarted and took her back in. Then at the dock I noticed I had no tell-tale. (It was pumping just fine in the barrel at home the last couple of weeks. Nice strong stream.) But today none and the mid unit was really hot.

So I'm assuming the lower needs to come apart and the impeller needs replacing. Also I had the oil/water drip that I believe in a main shaft seal?

The good news is the top is working so on to the bottom. Any insights, observations and warnings? For those of you with Scotts, are the seals for the Scott 60 lower available?

And so everyone can enjoy my "dock racing" today heres a picture!

And the drips...

PS - Lots of thumbs-up from other boaters... and I even had fun hanging at the dock.

The oil dripping from the lower tower weep hole is probably just unburned fuel/oil mixture. All old 2 cycles will do this, especially if they have been run at low speeds prior to being pulled from the water. If the oil smells like gear lube, then it is coming from the top seal in the lower unit. I'm betting on it being unburnt fuel oil.

With the motor turned off and in forward gear - push the throttle from idle to full throttle a number of times. Look at the ignition to be sure that the distributor is advancing as the throttle is opened. Is the part mounted on the exhaust cover a ballast resistor? If it is check to see that the resistance has not increased due to age. You will need a manual to give the resistance value. If the coils need to be replaced, that could be a big problem.

Bruce thanks for the feedback...
>is probably just unburned fuel/oil mixture.
That would be really good news. I was sure it was a seal.

Yes the distributor is advancing and the timing is advancing to 31 deg at full throttle. So I think I'm OK there.

Yes it has a ballast resistor. I'll check/test that. I haven't looked at that at all.

This motor is a '60 and only has a single coil (58-59's have 3 coils.)

I know I need to look at the impeller and make sure my cooling is working correctly.

It seems odd to me that the motor will rev in neutral and then just die on throttle in gear. Maybe it was just overheating that was bogging me down.

An engine can have a weak coil / low coil voltage, or fuel issues and it will still spool up in neutral. Don't let that mislead you. Something is wrong and farting out when the engine is under load. I'm betting it's the coil or low coil voltage.

This is getting fun watching you get the ol Scott up and running again, I do have an extra set of those carbs,coil,and possible other parts we could deal on, If you feel the need.

I agree with both above I'll spit it out right now I don't know crap about boat motors but by the sound of your problem I would first assume a fuel problem on the carb. Do the carbs have a load set screw? Or you may need to crank your mixture out just a little and richen it up. But I do agree with both above it is very possible it could be a ignition problem!!!! If you do find the coil that will work for it post the part# please!!! Good luck!!

I had a 6 horse Scott-Atwater years ago that would run all day in neutral but when I put it in gear to try to get some work out of it, it would seize up. Turned out to be the water pump impellers (yes two of them, one for the engine and one for the integrated bilge pump) were shot. I replaced them and it turned into a reliable motor up until it was stolen off the back of my boat.

Thank all for the feedback and encouragement.

Since my tell-tale has disappeared I'm pulling the lower this weekend and I will get a new impeller and change the lower oil (which I should have done anyway.) Then once the cooling issue is resolved I'll look at the coil and carbs again.

And Pony Boy seeing your boats with their Scott's has helped inspire me. I know I'm getting closer.

Hey, just be carfull when lowering the unit, there is a small rubber that connect's the water tubes, they may be crumbly,hopefully not though. and the top impeller is the bailer. and the bottom is....well you know.

Chance got in touch with me and I have added his scanned 1961 60 HP parts manual to the Library:

www.fiberglassics.com/library/Wizard_Outboard_Service_Manuals

Love that... Thanks Chance! The parts cut-aways in this are great... and thank you HandyAndy for posting.

Pulled my lower and found the bailer impeller is toast but the water pump impeller looks really good.

Here's the disassembly pics:
(1) Drain the lower


(2) Shift into Neutral, remove Inspection plate, remove LOWER screw, shift into reverse.


(3) Unbolt the five allen head screws holding the lower. Mine released easily, the manual says to slightly rotate the lower to break the seal between the two pumps and water bailer lines.

(4) Pull the entire assembly down and out of the lower motor casing.

(5) Slide the rubber boot off the end of the drive shaft by working it loose with your thumbs.

(6) Remove the water inlet cup.
(7) Remove the four pump assembly screws
(8) Lift the bailer pump off the drive shaft.

There are two roll pins that sit in the keys on the drive shaft. So I disassembled the pump one piece at a time to remove it from the drive shaft.

Here's the parts you can see the bailer impeller has no fins my water pump impeller is very nice.

When I was replacing the plug wires I snapped a bolt head on the exhaust manifold. After drilling the bolt and tapping I had a gasket leak. So I put some clear silicon in the bolt hole and siliconed the outside of the gasket. Which stopped the leak. Now I'm wondering now if I plugged a cooling inlet with excess silicon?


I want to trace the water flow to make sure nothing is blocked...
Is this the location where the tell tale should be coming out? I fished around with a coat hanger but didn't feel any hole going into the motor.

you can see the other side of that hole in the spk plug wire pic, under the head

Right! and there is a head bolt directly above it... I thought maybe there was a hole on the other side of the head bolt given the fact the tell tale comes out at an angle. But I cant feel anything.

So where does the telltale come from? I know I saw it when the motor first fired but I didn't pay attention.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but the bailer impeller failure wouldn't cause the motor to overheat.

I think I (or something else left over in the motor) clogged something in the cooling system. I didn't want to take off all the exhaust bolts and replace the gasket (aka do it the right way) because I was afraid I'd break more bolts. I was hoping I could do it next winter because the powerhead will need to come off to get to all the bolts if any of the lower ones break.

I've got a bailer impeller coming in so I'll out it back together this week and test it again.

what looks like a tube just behind where your arrow was, has a large screw cap on the end, you should see a small dimpel where the water should squirt out, call me if you want,317-979-0050

Got it. Thanks!

I run the slightly newer 75.2hp, and they have a thermostat, next to it is a flat spot, i drill it out and put in a 3/16 brass fitting then run a tube out the top, i cant seem to find a pic though

Shacomm,
You may want to set up a garden hose to check the flow in your power head. Make an adapter to run water into the copper water pump supply line that goes up to the power head. You can use the rubber gasket on the pump outlet as part of the adapter. Turn on the water on and you should get flow coming down the housing from the exhaust area.
If you can control the leakage into the supply tube you can try to catch the return water in a bucket to see how much flow is occurring. It's pretty much a judgement call on amount of flow.
You can also check to see if the telltale is working.
I just went through an overheating episode with a 60 hp Scott.

>Make an adapter to run water into the copper water
>pump supply line that goes up to the power head

I'll try that, thanks!

are those yellow s/plug wires solid core? they must be solid copper. not the automotive style

did you ck the large impeller at the brass? I have several that have been loose, they looked fine but the brass would spin and the rubber wouldnt.

Shacomm,
Wow I must give you credit you are so neat and tidy and everything you pulled off is organized so well I am quite jealous I pulled my impeller off on the side of my truck and disassembled it there I agree with Flying fish try to rig a way that you can push water through your passages and see if you can 1) flush some dirt out 2)see how much flow you are getting keep the pictures coming!!!!

>are those yellow s/plug wires solid core?
Nope... auto store do it yourself... I'll change them stat! Thanks for the heads-up. Also I will double check the center of the impeller before reassembly. I have one of each on the way so I'll likely replace both.

Edit: doing some reading I found the reason I need solid core plug wires... Most wire sets you will purchase today are the newer HEI (High Energy Ignition) type. These wires are designed for use on ignition systems with outputs of 35,000 to 45,000 volts. Your original classic point-type ignition system operates in the 20,000 volt range. Putting modern HEI wires on your 20,000 volt classic ignition system causes low voltage to the spark plugs, resulting in hard starting, poor gas mileage, decreased performance, rough running, fouled plugs, and other symptoms that seem carburetor-related, when, in fact, they are being caused by incorrect plug wires.

>everything you pulled off is organized so well
Thanks... the pix help me remember how to put everything back together. One cool thing, the design of the pump is asymetrical so its almost impossible to reassemble it wrong. That helps.

Any recommendations on what to use to replace the tape insulators that site between the pump and housing? Can I use electrical tape or do I need something else?

Maybe some shrink wrap? I'm not exactly sure what would work the best Shrink wrap is nice since it's water proof and is pretty durable and there isn't any glue to fall apart on it but i'm sure one of the "Pros" on here knows what will work best

insulaters? got a pic?

funny you should ask...

The book says:
"You will note that each water pump housing boss and a small ajacent area of the pump is covered with vinyl tape. Thius tape acts as a shield between the aluminum pump housing and the silicon bronze pump and prevents electolysis. When assembling the pump make sure this tape is in place and is in good condition."

Mine is--shall we say-- not so good.

For others: this is the Water and Bailer Pump housing for the 1960 Scott McCulloch 60hp.

These arrived so I can put it all back together this weekend.

cant wait!

I put the lower back together today and everything went quite well.

First up was the circulation test. Home Depot sells a Scott McCulloch hose attachment (aka high pressure spray nozzle) that fits into the water inlet on the motor. I shoved this in the hole and turned on the hose faucet. Water filled the cooling system and a nice tell-tale stream came shooting out of the port side of the motor.




The biggest challenge in the reassembly was keeping the roll pin in place while reassembling the water pump. My solution was a dab of clear silicon. After it setup it held the pin in place while I put the impeller back on. I reassembled the layers in reverse order and installed the bailer new impeller finishing it off with my home made electrical tape insulators.




After everything was back together I refilled the lower oil. The lower takes about 15oz and I pumped another 10oz in until it started flowing clean out the top. The old lower oil was dirty!


Then I replaced my plug wires with old-school solid core wires and fired her up. There was a little drama with the plug end terminals. The OE Plus wire set has a "universal" plug ends that can be put on straight or at a 90 degree boot. The issue is the plug end is too long to clear the cowling. So I took the plug ends from the Accel kit which are as short as you can get and used them on the OE Plus kit. So you will see in the last photo of the motor black wires with red boots.

First assembly with plug ends that are too long.

The fix was to use the Accel plug ends.

I have great water circulation and a nice strong tell-tale (that you cant really see in the picture but its there.)


Tomorrow I'm going to check the ballast resistor and double check the timing and maybe take her out for another test.