TOPIC: 1960 Starflite V4 75hp back in service.

So I managed to find a transmitter for my Airguide tach but I am not sure if it will work with my engine or gauge.
it's a model 650. The gauge that it would work in tandem with looks exactly like my "For model 653 or 654" gauge. Same face, same 6000 RPM limit. The Transmitter says it is for a 2 or 4 cylinder with magneto ignition, which is what the model 653 is, and what ultimately I need. the only thing it doesn't reference is if the 650 is for a 2 or 4 stroke, but then I have to believe it's meant for 2 stroke because how many 4 stroke 2 bangers were out there circa 1960?

What say, think it will work with my Starflite II?

According to what you wrote I see no reason why it would not. I take it you have the wiring diagram for it? Give it a try. I would.

So here's another parts question. I am having a devil of a time trying to find the rubber seal that sits between the cowl and the base plate. There are two parts to it, one has part number 305704, and the other is off by one digit. Neither are available on Marineengine.com or ebay. Mine are totally shot. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Eric

Not sure if he is going to have it but check nymarine.ca and see if he has it. It shows that he does.

Thanks Pappy! He did in fact have the right stuff and I ordered what I need. Awesome resource, you are.

He almost always has the finish parts that I need to complete a vintage engine. Good to know he could help.
I have used his wiring harnesses about three times now. Not inexpensive but well worth it considering it eliminates a good possibility of a huge short circuit and fire under the hoods of the 2cyl engines. He does excellent work in the making of the harnesses.

So another question about this Starflite....I'm a little confused about the charging system. I know the magneto handles the spark, and there's the unicharger under the flywheel, right? But then mine also has what appears to be a belt driven generator or alternator on the port side. Yet I can find no reference to it in any of the Starflite diagrams on marine engine dot com.
Is it an option?
Thanks,
Eric

And thanks again Ed for your trick of cross referencing part numbers on ebay...I'm able to gather basically all the parts I need!

Hi, Eric, since your Starflite has a magneto, you don't need any power to run the engine. Of course it's not so fun to use the recoil starter on these, so you have electric start, and the electric choke is useful. And I'd expect you have manual shift not Selectric. So your power needs are minimal, and Way Back Then outboard mfr's didn't necessarily put a charging system on every motor.

On the other hand, Selectric models required a "hot" battery due to the electrical demands of the lower unit. And they mostly came with an alternator, under the flywheel.

Yours has the optional belt-driven generator with an externally-mounted voltage regulator. If you have the control harness electrical box which holds the starter solenoid, there should also be a voltage regulator mounted inside. If you still have the cover, the wiring diagram is on the inside of the cover.

If your regulator is shot, there are replacements available, but they're not cheap. Oft times you can find a decent price on a replacement, used or new, on eBay. BTW glad eBay searches are working out for you.

At any rate, if you generator and regulator & associated wiring are intact, when you run the engine you can put a voltmeter on the battery and see if the voltage rises when the engine is running.

If not, there are tests that can be done to gen and reg. If you have a local starter/alternator/motor rebuild shop, they could help you with repairs as well.

HTH................ed

Hi Ed,

I do have the extra deep cover on my junction box which would suggest there is a regulator in there. Now with the engine off the boat I really need to pull the box off for safe keeping, so I'll get to see what kind of condition things are in there.
Any idea what kind of power output the generator should put out? Enough to charge a deep cycle marine battery? I was toying with the thought of dual batteries but with low voltage lighting and limited power draw I think that may be overkill. (And yes, it's a manual shift, and I don't think it has an electric choke but the much hated automatic water heated one.)
Also, I've read two schools of thought on the dual carbs on this V4. One says they are a bear to sync and adjust, and the other says this has fixed high speed jets which require no adjustment beyond adjusting idle. where does the truth lie?
Also, at the risk of asking too many questions, is there a difference between ignition switches for magneto based engines? Not sure how they would differ but seems I've seen both on the web. My old original which I have no key for has four screw terminals on the back. Seems like I've seen 3, 4, 5.....

Thank god for the knowledge and help disseminated here...I fear the day when the people who really know their old boats and engines are no longer around, because as a younger guy interested in old boats, I don't see a lot of interest coming up behind me in these fiberglassics. Eventually only a handful of enthusiasts will exist, and it will be like that one guy at the antique car show with a Stanley Steamer.
Thanks,
Eric

Your generator may very well have been an option as kits were available "back then"
As far as the carburetor goes it is a very simple one. Kits are readily available still through marineengine and Ebay. Simple to service, clean and install new components.
Setting the carburetor is dead simple as well. There is a single adjustable idle mixture screw for each bank of clyinders. The high speed jet is fixed as you mentioned. Setting the sync and link is pretty simple as well. Once set it should start and run extremely nice.
As far as the choke is concerned I would somewhat agree it is a bit finicky. I manually engage the choke then manually disengage it.
Now.....To that extent I have installed a modern fuel primer system on the latest V4-75hp I am bringing back into service. Simple to do and requires only one additional hot lead and attaching the primer solenoid ground lead to ground. From there a fuel tee has to be added to the pressure side of the fuel pump to go to the primer and then two lines installed from the outlet side of the primer to the carburetor bases to inject the pressurized fuel when the key is depressed or a primer or "choke" button is depressed. Simple and easy to get the engine started once installed. The old choke system is fully disengaged.
My other engine remains unchanged but this one I will play with a bit.

Thanks Pappy. Sound advice.

Here's another one for you....I had removed my lower unit before I pulled the engine from the transom. When I moved the engine down into the basement the two copper water pipes got hung up on a stair and were ruined. I ordered two NOS replacements. The first shorter one had two small (maybe 3/16") holes drilled in the tube. I can see no such holes on the original. Dealt with the seller, he had 4 more...3 of them also had holes. He mailed me the one that had none.

Today I got the longer tube,....and it has a single hole drilled in it. ??????

I can't imagine these life supporting water supply tubes should have holes in them, allowing cooling water to leak out into the exhaust tube area. What gives?

Usually those holes were placed in the pressure side pipe. They were there to spray a small amount of water onto the inner exhaust to cool it. You have plenty of cooling water available to cool the powerhead.

Re: your question about the ign switch, the old-style switches have 4 terminals. One "M" for magneto grounding wire; one "B" for battery; one "S" for the starter solenoid; and one "A" for the ammeter connection. If you can find one like yours, it should work ok. Newer switches commonly have (2) terminals for the "M" and I'll go into that in more detail in a bit.

Having a hard time finding the proper wiring diagram, but I did stumble upon this page at Marineengine.com which has all the parts associated with the electrical junction box, including V. Reg, starter solenoid, ign switch:

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1961&hp=75&model=50524&manufacturer=evinrude§ion=junction+box+and+switch+plate+group

Here's the info for the ign switch (#44 in the diagram): www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_search.php?part_num=378326

There are a number of switches that accommodate different terminal configurations. And one of the Sierra switches has a 6th terminal for running accessories with the engine off.

Here's the deal on the new ign switches that have (2) "M" contacts for magneto grounding. I'm assuming that the "M" contacts are switched, and connect the 2 terminals together when the key is "OFF". This would work on a 2-cylinder, and each "M" wire would go to one set of points. When the key is "OFF" the 2 points are shorted together and this kills spark.

On your 75hp magneto, the one connection on the side of the mag is shorted to engine ground. Only one black "Mag-Kill" wire is gonna come from that magneto contact to the ign switch. You also have to have a wire that goes to either the ground terminal on the battery or the engine ground itself. Then when the ign switch is in the "OFF" position, you get ground carried from "earth" to the contact on the mag, and it'll kill spark. The "M" contacts open up in the "ON" or "Start" position to let the mag spark.

Hope that makes sense, and if you don't find a convenient grounding point for the "M" wire, you could also run a wire back to the junction box, there's a good grounding point in there.

Or maybe there's already a ground wire in the harness, if only I had a diagram. I went to look in my Seloc manual, but all of the appendices with wiring diagrams are missing! Old books, that's the way the binder crumbles, eh!!

HTH..........ed

On the later model ignition switches with the two M terminals you are absolutely correct. One terminal went to ground and the other usually had the black/yellow lead coming from the power pack attached to it to ground the pack and kill ignition. I am running a 6 pin switch with push-in primer (or choke) function on my old 75hp. That is how I have mine wired.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. And yes, I do get you about the 2 "M" contacts .... kind of like grounding out a small magneto engine (lawn equipment) to kill the spark.

The question I have about that 6 contact switch for an accessory power without the engine running would be why? Because in my mind (and tell me if I'm wrong here) I am going to leave the stock wiring for engine/ignition/ammeter as is in the diagram for a 1960 I found below (although this has wiring for a hot light which I thought was 1961 and up, but maybe this is a 1961 diagram then). THEN, I plan on running a dedicated power wire from battery to a kill switch under the gunwale, then up to the helm panel underside to a waterproof fuse block, where I can feed power to my accessories (lighting groups, horn compressor, power tilt, etc) in a way so they are always hot without need of a key.

Here's the diagram. And this brings questions too.


First, if you follow the generator wiring, it goes to the V reg in the junction box. The only other wire off the regulator is a brown wire that goes to the fuse block and then to the ammeter. But I don't see any means of charge from the regulator going back to the battery itself. So how does the battery get recharged?

Also, if you follow the same brown wire, it splits and goes to a power take off. I imagine I could use this as a power source for the tilt motor if I wanted to? But then I'm assuming it might be hot only when running?

Now on my engine harness I find all the wires shown on the engine side of the diagram, but there is also this one as seen in my hand:

It is a short wire with what looks to be a plastic shielded ring terminal. At first I thought maybe it was a lead for the overheating sensor if it were merely an option in 1960, but it had a hardly legible factory tag on it that says something to the tune of "Choke Switch (blurred) When Choke is Used". Huh? I thought these units only had the hot water choke. Any thoughts on that? I was considering it as a potential wire lead utilizing the original plug for the overheat sensor.

The diagram is great....makes it very easy to build a new correct gauge harness.

Thanks in advance,
Eric

Yeah, nice having that diagram!

As to how the generator gets power to the system, remember that the generator is grounded to the powerhead/grounding lead. There's a path to ground electrically from one side of the armature. On the other side, the voltage regulator provides a path between the "BAT" Battery connection and the "ARM" Armature connection. You'll notice the thick green wire in your diagram, it goes to the "B" contact on the ign switch. The "A" connection passes thru the ammeter before going to the "BAT" terminal on the v. reg.

So there's your current path. And I see in the diagram that they are carrying a ground (black wire) from the engine to one of the "M" terminals on the ign switch. So that makes sense.

The "Power Take Off" lead in the regulator box is interesting, but it's switched so that won't help in your quest for power when ign is off.

I'd suggest using a fused accessory lead off the Pos terminal of the battery for your power-always-available loads. Or as you were saying, feed from the battery to another fuse box. The fused wire at the battery just gives you an extra layer of protection in case something shorts out really bad. Use a bigger fuse at the battery to cover all the loads, and another distribution panel for the loads themselves. Do they have those with built-in circuit breakers? That would be nice. Fuses will do the job as well.

Maybe something like this that I just found, looks pretty cool and isn't too $$pendy:

www.wholesalemarine.com/sea-dog-aluminum-breaker-panel.html

And maybe you'll find a use for the P.T.O. switch wire after all. Nice that it's there if you every do have a need for it.

Also nice of them to give you an extra wire in the engine harness, guess they did use electric choke somewhere/sometime, or they wouldn't have that spare wire, would they!

If you can use it elsewhere, why not? Certainly better than running an extra wire. It'll handle the current load of an overheat light circuit no sweat.

Still looks to me like you need an ign switch with 5 terminals; (2) "M", (1) "B", (1) "A", and (1) "S" (starter).

Hope that all makes sense!..............ed

Pic of a typical v. reg.

One other thing to keep in mind. The later model key switches only recommend a maximum of about 2A on the accessory terminal (key on hot). Typically this is to power gauges and gauge lighting.
On the rest of your onboard electrical load there are many electrical load charts available online to tell you what gauge wire you will need once you calculate your total load. When measuring wire length remember that the wire length will be the total length of the complete circuit not just how much wire it takes to get to your load (fuse block) so figure out what length your wire run will be and double it then take a look at the chart. Use the 3% side. Your trim motor will consume quite a lot of power when running so keep that in mind or run a separate circuit and make sure the switch is rated for the load.
Also in looking at your pliug-in connector it looks like the wire insulation on your battery lead is about to go away? Cracking on some others? nymarine.ca makes a replacement for these and they are worth their weight in gold compared to an onboard fire out on the water. Not cheap but worth it. I have installed 4 replacements so far and all have been perfect. I have a 5th ready to go in a couple weeks for another guy.
Here is an example of a chart. www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

Ed, the breaker you posted is pretty cool. I had something like this in mind, as I want actual old style pull knobs to power individual items while protected by a fuse box.


And yes, I just purchased a NOS brass 5 terminal ignition switch with a chrome finish nut. The Sierra being black plastic just bothers me. I'm super picky about keeping this boat looking period correct. It's a problem I have.

Pappy....The insulation is actually okay (that's white paint on the starter wire) but I wouldn't dream of using 60+ year old wiring. It will be getting replaced. I just wish I could find the actual pin connector plugs these engines use so I could build my own harness. I wonder where the guy in Canada gets his....Maybe I'll call him and find out. If worse comes to worse I'll just bite the bullet and order harnesses from him. But I'd prefer making my own.

Thanks guys,
Eric

He actually casts the hand made wire connectors into a mold and molds the new connector assembly. Lots of work...lots!!! I know it would seem his prices are high but we have replaced a lot of Yamaha harnesses and you should see the prices on those!!! Out of sight in comparison. Get 'em while you can because he is the only guy that does them.
Like I said in the post. I have done 4 of his so far and they are amazing and to me ...well worth it for peace of mind. Have a brand new one here at the house waiting to go into another engine.

Wow, so he really goes all out. I assume the metal plate with the two bolts that hold it in place is reused? Fits just like factory?

I have to do some mold making myself. I need to make cut molds of both the Starflite 75 plastic badges on the cowl (front and rear) as mine are all internally cracked and faded. Then use a crystal clear resin to cast new ones and paint accordingly. It's going to be a challenge.

Pappy and Ed, just as a temporary aside,....can I ask you a bit about yourselves? I'd love to know more about your backgrounds. How old are you and are marine engines a hobby or actual occupations for you?
I'm 43, and work in a restaurant. But my interest is always restoration based. I have done cars, furniture, and currently 12 years into restoring my 1874 Victorian, all solo. The boat is next in line.

Thanks!
Eric

Well.....Let me know how they turn out. I already "know a guy" who is doing this. If you would like and he agrees I may put the two of you in touch with each other and he may save you some time and aggravation and give you some tips.. He has been doing this and improving every time. He currently has the Oval Johnson outboard badge down pat and the 1958 Johnson Super Quiet badge both front and read in production as well. I would love a set of new 1960 Starflite emblems but I don't think the volume would be enough for him to do them.

As far as what I do or did I do believe I have it in my profile somewhere. Bio maybe? If it is there I will update it to reflect some changes I made in October.

Ahh, didn't know the bio existed. Interesting read! So that's why you know so much about these engines.
Sorry to hear about the Covid battle this year...hope you are recovered. My wife woke up with it on Christmas morning last year, yet somehow I never got it. It wasn't fun for her, that's for sure.

I think it would be a neat challenge to try my hand at making the badges. I also have to make a new center cap for the steering wheel. I agree, probably not much of a market for 1960 Starflite badges, but tell you what...when I get to making some, I'll make a couple for you for all the help you've given me. I can't promise they'll be perfect, but hopefully they will suffice.

eperot wrote: Pappy and Ed, just as a temporary aside,....can I ask you a bit about yourselves? I'd love to know more about your backgrounds. How old are you and are marine engines a hobby or actual occupations for you?
I'm 43, and work in a restaurant. But my interest is always restoration based. I have done cars, furniture, and currently 12 years into restoring my 1874 Victorian, all solo. The boat is next in line.

Thanks!
Eric

Hi, Eric, 'short' bio: Mid-60's, always a "tinkerer", my Dad built go-karts and minibikes for my brother and I, and my Uncle started my Many-Years outboard "hobby" by giving me a box with a couple of 7.5hp Scott-Atwater outboards, in pieces. I put the parts together to make one good one, and ran it on a 10' Livingston that my Dad bought.

Worked on hundreds of outboards ('hobby", remember!) in the 80's and early 90's while boating was super-hot in the PNW. Fishing restrictions changed a lot of that but still worked on the occasional boat or fixed up a motor to sell. Meanwhile started out in the mid-70's as an apprentice Marine Electrician in the local Shipyard, then jumped to the technical codes (testing and work control) for the rest of my 36 yr career. Been retired over 10 years and it still doesn't suck!

Have always worked on my own vehicles, including motorcycles, and did a lot of boating/watersports in the 80's & 90's with my Brother and good friends, when we were all young & strapping and raising our kids at the local lake.

Worked on lots of different makes, including many Evil JohnRudes, but you'll always find a Mercury hanging off the back of my boat! My favorite boat of all time was a 17'-4" Seaswirl Spyder ski boat with a '71 1350 Merc that I rebuilt. Oh, for the days of Big Mercs and cheap gas!!

Cheers..........ed

I knew you had a knack or a gift for the electrical side, Ed....makes sense now!
So you also like or liked bikes as well? I am still into them. My wife and I have ten of them now which is too many.
Eperot - I would absolutely LOVE to have a set made when you get a chance. Would you like to get in touch with the fellow I know who is currently doing them? I will set it up if he wants to let the cat out of the bag.

Pappy wrote: I knew you had a knack or a gift for the electrical side, Ed....makes sense now!
So you also like or liked bikes as well? I am still into them. My wife and I have ten of them now which is too many.

Well, I think you've got me beat! I've got 8 buried in my garage, with a bunch of outboard parts in front of them! It'll be my life's achievement to get the garage cleared out so I can actually get at the bikes and park a car in the garage (what a concept, eh!).

Been working towards that goal in my yard, this year I cleared out a whole bunch of old things in the way and had some nice red-block walls built, and many yards of gravel. Now have plenty of parking outside, next is clean-up of the rest of the outboard stuff that's disorganized. That's what 50 years of collecting gets you!

I have a '74 Kawasaki 500 H1 in the garage that I'd dearly like to get going again. It's very loud, smokey, vibrates, and uses lots of gas. Very anti-social. That's why it's so much fun to drive! Has that hairpin power band that makes it seem wild. Pretty tame compared to the new 'cycles with 200hp or more, but that's fine with me! Also have an '85 Nighthawk 700S that I bought new, and commuted for years. It's a great bike and back when you could still get parts, I put a new gas tank on it and replaced the rusted-out mufflers. It just needs coming-out-of-storage maintenance and a new battery.

Boats, motors, motorcycles, all the other projects, we'll get 'em in our spare time, Right?!! So what's your favorite bike in the garage??

Out of the herd I would have to say...... "It depends".
For a good long cruise we have two Honda Valkyries. A '98 blue and cream and my 2002 Black with a center red stripe. True power cruisers with opposed 6-cylinder smoothness and power. We have done 9 states in 11 days on them in comfort.
For brute power I would say it is the 2019 Kawasaki Z900RS which is a retro bike similar to the old Z1 of the early 70's. It is around 500lbs and around 116hp at the rear wheel. Only bike I owned that was faster was a Yamaha VMax. That was brutal power yet was only rated at around 122 at the rear wheel.
Our 2018 Honda Monkeys are for all around town grin making fun! They are a 125cc version of the old Z50 Monkey.
Beyond that Lesa has a gorgeous 1982 Honda CB650SC. A predecessor to your 700 Nighthawk. She also has a Suzuki 550 and a 1981 Honda CB900 Custom. I have a 1982 version of that one. We also have a 1981 Honda Passport and a 2001 Triumph Thunderbird Adventurer which is a water cooled parallel triple. Really nice sounding and riding bike. It is gorgeous. My garage is over full as well. More stuff in there than just the bikes.

Man! You have some nice ones. Big touring bikes and all. Yeah, I remember the CB650SC Nighthawk, they were in the "Custom" style. The 700 is more like a sport-tourer with a shaft drive and hydraulic lifters. Yay, no valve or chain adjustments!

I have a REAL Z50, an old '69 model that runs but needs a new top end, because it's all worn out from lack of air filter for who knows how long. Good thing they're easy to work on and you can still get engine parts. Would have bought a hundred of 'em if I'd realized how much they'd be worth! A bike that size with a 125 engine would be a lot of fun!!

The Z900RS sounds like a really nice bike, and 116hp is nothing to sneeze at. My Nighthawk weighs about the same, but only has 85hp. It's plenty entertaining for me. And yeah, those VMax's were the Bees Knees! I remember when they came out, fast bike and radical looks.

Well, it's going to be a White Christmas in a few days, and a Frigid PNW all next week. We can think happy thoughts of boating and motorcycling meanwhile!!

Best bike I ever owned was my '79 Yamaha XS1100. Was a full dresser, with lowers, hard bags, loaded and it would still lift the front in 3rd with all that weight. Sold it when crazy people started pulling out in front of me from their driveways. Too scary for me. Did keep my Yama 250 exciter though. Just sold that last summer

Lesa rode a 2004 Yamaha VStar 1100 Custom for a summer. She rode it to the mountains. Sold it after that ride and we got the Valkyrie for her. She liked the bike but it got buzzy up around 75mph and higher. Put her hands to sleep.

Well, Pappy, I just ordered new internal and external wiring harnesses from Peter. I decided to skip on the harness up to the helm as it's very simple six conductor cable with ring terminals and I can make it wayyy cheaper. Plus, for that particular harness he doesn't use tinned marine wiring. Maybe it isn't necessary as the wire under the gunwale and helm doesn't need to flex, but I'd still prefer it for the enhanced corrosion protection.
It will be nice to have peace of mind of all new wiring.

I also FINALLY located a schematic of my early tilt assembly including part numbers and the vast majority of parts are still available. I ordered and now have basically every replaceable part, seal, gasket, brushes, etc. Even a new Power Piston! I'll probably post the diagram in the library for others who may benefit.

Eric

Just talked to him the other day and ordered some parts for a 1956 Evinrude I am bringing back into service for a guy who has owned it since he was a kid....now retired in Alabama.